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Oct232008
The ‘Me Marathi’ rhetoric
I write this article even as Raj Thackeray shuttles from one courthouse to another. Raj has shown that he exerts considerable influence in Maharashtra even if he is not as powerful as his uncle and Shiv Sena supremo Bal Thackeray.
Many suburbs of Mumbai gripped with fear, are anxious about the political fallout of his arrest. There is heaps of criticism across all media channels; some calling him “Goonda” Raj while others quoting his actions as mindless. There are even calls to ban the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena.
It is not very difficult to understand the motives behind Raj’s vociferous stance for reserving 80% of the low level jobs for Maharahstrians. With the elections coming up, there ain’t many issues which can generate as much publicity and sympathy as championing the rights of your Maharashtrian brothers and sisters.
Raj has invoked a new sense of identity in the masses. I was recently in Pune, which in spite of its cosmopolitan status largely remains a Maratha heartland. I overheard a group of Maharashtrians asking the waiter to get the menu card printed in Marathi else they would complain to the MNS. More than the sense of shock at such an outrageous demand, I was awed by the sort of response Raj’s “Me Marathi” campaign has generated. The time spent in jail will only increase his voter base rather than reduce it!
When the MNS was established, everyone cheered as they felt that Raj would be a refreshing change for Maharashtra’s political fortunes. He exudes ample charisma, has fantastic oratorical skills and is definately more popular than Udhav (his cousin).
I feel that in spite of his recent antics, the people of Maharashtra should vote for him when elections come calling. If the MNS does come into power, they would undeniably focus on development and progress rather than these futile pursuits of driving the North Indians away. After all, to stay in power would require them to do a lot more then simply try to protect 4th grade jobs in Maharashtra.
Even when Shiv Sena was in power during their tie up with the BJP led coalition, I doubt if they ever tried to flare up regional issues. Its only when they lost massively that they tried to attract the Marathi voters through various other means.
Every party in India tries to get its votes either on the basis of religion or caste. Is it any surprise that the MNS has added a regional twist to it?
Indians have voted for so many candidates even after alleged links to massive public scandals: Shibu Soren has come into power after being sentenced to life by a Delhi court, Laloo Prasad Yadav has come into power after the fodder scam, Narendra Modi has swept into power after Godhra.
Give Raj a chance. The guy is eager to prove himself. Maharashtra only stands to gain from him.
The views expressed in this post are those of the writer and are not necessarily endorsed by Mutiny.in
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almostinfamous
001
6:30 pm
great apology for regionalist xenophobia. really well done overall.
while i applaud your wholehearted embrace of absolute cynicism, i think this is taking things a bit far.
almostinfamous
002
6:31 pm
apparently my wholehearted embrace of adjectives has also gone a bit further than i had anticipated. i apologize if this offends anyone.
Raj
003
7:09 pm
Nah.. U didnt offend me. I expected sum bashing frm everyone wen i wrote this. Problem is that while we sit out here and decry MNS, Raj Thackeray is generating massive support at the ground level.
Also, all the other options are not too appealing anywz..
Am sure that those who oppose Raj Thackarey will also not be too kind to the BJP or the Shiv Sena. BJP and SS both do not have any good candidates for the post of CM..
That leaves the present government which has almost done nothing at all. If you leave out Mumbai, Pune and Nashik are there any other places worth mentioning at all?? (except Latur and Baramati frm where we have leaders from both the Congress and the NCP)
Mumbai and Pune hav not shown any significant change over the previous 5 years.
Might as well vote for sum1 who might help develop Maharashtra…
Raj
004
7:21 pm
btw.. i am not a Maharashtrian.. for me Raj luks lik the only guy wo mite do sumtin if voted…
Srikanth
005
7:35 pm
“Give Raj a chance. The guy is eager to prove himself. Maharashtra only stands to gain from him”
Your above statement is really foolish - to know the pain - you should ask someone who is killed in this mindless violence — four people have died - and you say, Maharashtra only stands to gain - are you really out of your mind when you say this?
Sitting in air-conditioned offices and writing opinions is just too easy - go out on the streets and look at the suffering of the common man - who is caught in this crisis.
Cant really say who is more foolish - Raj Thackeray or people like you
grouper
006
8:13 pm
Maro Sale Ko
krishnakant
007
9:43 pm
We are witnessing an unprecedented Tsunami of violent, un-cooperative, restrictive and possessive regional behavior in Mumbai. The Xenophobia of society has grown larger from Foreigners to Muslims to now Languages. In fact it’s not xenophobia it’s kind of insecure feeling because of some complexes I don’t want to mention.
Rabid dogs have bitten all of us and we are using all the media to bark what our internal syndromes are giving us. Castrated bulls are roaming around to look for fertile cows. The so-called important people are sleeping and watching all drama with short focused glasses.
We started to restrict freedom through back doors of mind. We are seeing people from India witnessing restriction in making paintings, to singing songs, to use of your own tri-color. Breed of people are emerging as “Moral Luminaries”. They have a birthright to question morality with so-called “INDIAN” culture.
With 99%, Indians excluded from this I do not know how to classify Indian culture myself. The creativity and business is being compromised on pseudo political grounds.
Indian film industry is also seeing lately the restrictive noose around their necks. They can feel suffocation. Its not only expression and freedom of creative work but economics is being killed. The history has witnessed the great retreat of people and communities like Jews, Zoroastrian, from their original places to other lands, the reasons were same (like here) and the results are open to contemplate. The culture and customs are important and also represent the glory of ages but this doesn’t lead people to impose the dogma unilaterally. Language is a matter of communication which very much gives liberty to have ease. Languages don’t get imposed on people they get to learn it naturally. Also Cultures cannot be taught, it’s just a matter of gathering which collectively evolves a culture in ages. And traditional culture should give its base to adopt the new culture. This is going on from the ancient time, we don’t behave in a manner we used to be in ancient time. This is called civilization, and stopping somewhere between is called barbarism. History shows that barbers have their own culture they didn’t got mixed and remain the same. So we should be educated enough to behave in a civilized manner. I don’t know why the policy makers named a state “Maharashtra” in a “Rashtra” only. And I guess the feeling of superiority will have got strengthen from that point only. I don’t have any other reason to think Maharashtra as a prosperous and rich without its formerly merged states namely “Bombay” and Vidarbha. Well my point is simple glory grows with economics and your so called glory is the point that you have Mumbai, well don’t get confuse the Mumbai is a place and its made so by some extraordinary businessmen think tanks and migration at large. Its strategic location can be compromised with other ports with the existence and availability of the advancement of science and growing rapidness in transportation. I know it’s tough to replace the roots it can be tough but when the question of life and liberty arrives people had taken tough decisions, history shows it. The people who stoned the home of the star of the millennium, humiliating him continuously, who are abusing a so called ‘King’ Actor, vandalized property of a rare painter, they really don’t know the after effects of the economics involved into the creative and entertainment industry. The total hullabaloo is going on for power to make money, but what if the money take a flight to a more safe and liberal place. Which is possible and will be encouraged to change the power poles of economic capital? The society needs creativity and in turn becomes a huge business. So the worsening environment of City that never sleeps will be leading to a re-migration and re-establishments? Well the economics of the threatened segment is so large that It can reestablish a new and advance culture elsewhere. When Luniere brothers first displayed her motion pictures first in Mumbai he would have thought it a port with multi cultural and multi ethnic people living and earning their bread. In fact Mumbai is Mumbai just because its strategic situation and location near the sea port. Safety and security were guaranteed there against any foreign or bandit invasion. The time has changed since the port was developed by merchants and businessmen with the help of rulers of that time. Reestablishments of the establishments should be reaction & answer to the barbaric, self-interested fragment of the particular society. Its nothing new, many countries seen such a situation where particular segment (business, artist….) of a federal society had been exploited, politicized by local segments to control the money flow and thus power by playing games of exciting and igniting the sentiments of majority society against the minority groups of different kinds.
Lets take a look at the figures of portion of the economics involved with the burning Mumbai. India has the largest film industry in terms of the number of movies made. As well as fastest growing television and music industry is also belongs to us. Those businesses are really big and very large investments are involved in the industry. The Indian film industry is worth around US$ 8.50 billion during 2007 and expected to touch around US$ 20 billion till 2011.similarly Indian television industry is about US$5.8 billion with a growth of 18%. With unprecedented growth in animation industry it is expected that this segment will produce around 980 million US$ by 2009-10. The very much co-related advertising industry itself recorded a growth of 22 per cent over the previous year contributing an estimated US$ 4.88 billion in 2007 as compared with US$ 4.01 billion in 2006. In recent past, the advertising industry recorded a cumulative growth of 20 per cent on an overall basis. Radio industry recorded an impressive performance in 2007, having recorded a growth of 24 per cent over the previous year and is estimated at Rs. 6.2 billion in 2007. These figures can be viewed as a idea of the Mumbai economics in entertainment industry only leaving the other business segment behind. Similar statics needs to be contemplated about other business activities being run from the financial capital of India. A great retreat of the business establishments like entertainment industry is required and is a suitable answer to the problem raised by the behavior of those rift producing culprits & their associations.
Let us find a way. India is waiting for a gutsy business leader to emerge and lead the pack of wolfs of creativity to a real world.
We have to see a person emerging to save this creativity of Indian spirit. Ta-Pan Must come forward now and takes us forward from this suffocating environment to a fresh heaven. All state capitals are waiting for his lead and his endeavor.
Krishnakant
School of Thought
crishna@anyemails.com
why?
008
11:10 pm
Wow.
While what you said about him gaining support at the ground level is true, I dont understand how you don’t voice your concerns over using violence at this level to gain political power.
If he really is eager to prove himself, and if he really does deserve it, ask him to show his skills by coming to power based on a few sober, non-violent actions.
Sanjukta
009
1:00 am
This is the most absurd argument I ever came across… give him a chance? Give a mad criminal with blood on his hand a chance to run a state? Tomorrow every other mad dog would start killing people to be in politics.. so this stands proved or what that you MUST be a criminal to be in politics. The guy has gone against the very Constitution of the country, he has challenged the country’s sovereignty, he is a goddam traitor.
This is what should be done to him, one of our high court judge or lawyer should slap him twice in full public view for showing disrespect to law and order and then put him behind the bars for 10 years. That’s 2 terms in office for an elected party.
Swagata
010
2:04 am
Really unbelievable, you have lost your brain, I feel so sorry for you.
The lack of options to vote for is really sad in the world’s biggest multiparty democracy,but that’s no excuse for supporting a criminal like Raj Thakrey. Such people, if not curbed right away, will eventually divide India into thousands of insignficant fragments doomed to prerish. In our text books in school there were stories of how a bunch of sticks cannot be broken but its easy to break one stick. When we get jobs etc do we wipe out all those basic learnings? What is going wrong where? Why are we not thinking rationally?
Saurabh Garg
011
10:28 am
Hi Raj,
You have tried really hard to make a convincinf statement but I am so sorry to say that none of that hold true at least in our context.
If we were to play Divide and Rule all over again, with Mr. Thackery leading the way, I will be very scared.
Just because of him, look at all the unrest being caused at states as wide and far as Bihar and UP. Innocent lives are being lost. To what cause?
Anyways, thanks for posting.
Regards,
SG
Ketan
012
10:29 am
This is ridiculous!!
A man, who resorts to violence at the slightest pretext cannot be expected to help in the evolution of the society for the better.
This is plain wanna be tactics. and if not curbed now, will lead to extremely divisive and dangerous politics!
Hemant
013
11:49 am
For those who want vote Raj to power just because there are no other suitable candidates.. i would like to tell them that apart from the right to vote we as Indians also have a right to as for a form 49-O from the election officer at the polling booth.
Now you can use the form 49-O when you feel that no body amongst all the candidates is suitable for contesting elections.. and if the number of form 49_o received increases the number of votes received by the winning candidate the election commission has to organize fresh elections with new candidates
sanjukta
014
1:12 pm
@Hemant and others
I can’t bet on it, but so far as my knowledge goes, I am doubtful about the authenticity of that informaiton reg. Form 49-O. That information was circulated recently by forwarded email but I am yet to find out the source.
Please do share the source if you have it.
Axay
015
1:47 pm
Hullo
Although you made a good point by saying that all the Indian Political Parties try to earn their votes on the basis of religion and caste, and in that way Mr. Thackrey is nowhere going wrong, but the voilence and chaos created by the party is totally condemnable and is totally anti-social. Shouldn’t he just try to uplift the Maharashrians by some other means like education or something…?
Myself being a Maharashtrian, somewhere even I feel that I am losing job opportunities to the North-Indians, and being Marathi, I feel that I have a bit more right to get the job.
Raj
016
1:56 pm
Lets get this straight… I ve never proclaimed Raj Thackeray to be a saint..
Jus like the MNS, every political party in India has blood on their hands (frm the 83 riots to the Babri Masjid incident to Godhra). And till date they vehemently oppose this notion. All of us have overlooked these facts and voted for them. Having a squeaky clean image has never been a obligatory condition to be a politician in India. I am not tryin to get into age old debates. All I am saying is that we generally tend to overlook a party’s past or we would have never voted for the major political parties in India.
This is what will happen with the MNS too 5 years down the line. I am simply hedging my bets on Raj doing sumtin for the state than any1 else…
The present generation wants a good politician. So maybe sumwhere down the line we will get one. But at present we dont have many who fit ur idealistic descriptions. So we ll have to make do with the ones we have.
1conoclast
017
2:10 pm
Raj,
Your pipe-dream has evoked so much derisive laughter anyway that I do not feel the need to add to it.
A few points:
1. Stray incidents of rioting do not indicate influence. If he had that much influence, he wouldn’t have been arrested. His far more despicalbe uncle had influence. He never got arrested.
2. Time spent in jail increases voter base??? Is that why every crooked politician tries to avoid jail like hell? Did hkl bhagat’s popularity increase because he went to jail? Dreaming again huh?
3. The charisma & oratorial skills you speak of are only admired by people who can only speak corrupted dialects of Marathi. Charisma is what Princess Diana had. Charisma is what Amitabh Bachchan has. Oratory is what Vajpayee was known for. raj is viewed as charismatic by slum-dwellers, because they’ve seen nothing better. Even Mithun has mass appeal. With the rickshawwallah class!
4. I feel the people of India should vote Kashmiri separatists into power at the centre.
Right?
5. I’m glad you remember that the shiv sena-bjp combine lost power. Please remember that they gained power because of the regional rhetoric & assuming that you’re right about them giving it up while in power, they instantly lost it.
This is proof that regional rhetoric is no guarantee of long-term influence. Proof that raj has no long term future. Except in jail maybe.
6. So just because other parties & people like soren, yadav & modi have gotten undeserved power, we should make one more mistake?
Just because the country has been raped by greedy, corrupt politicians before, we should allow them to rape what we call out Motherland again???
Two wrongs do not make a right, my dear boy.
This post can be forgiven, but I hope you will learn the vital difference between right & wrong in life.
1conoclast
018
2:13 pm
Raj…
One more thing:
If you learn from your past mistakes, from our history, you will learn that the sena did nothing for the state despite claiming that they will.
Why then are you betting on someone who is & who’s agenda is an exact replica of the earlier failure?
Bet on someone who really has the interests of the state & the country at heart, not him. He only has his own interests at heart.
Bombay indian
019
2:30 pm
Hi people. Raj deserves to be put in jail. He is a traitor to all of us.
starting with regional people who call themselves Marathi.
I have been born in this state, have spent my life here, and think its a beautiful place.
However i am sad to see how stupid my fellow brothers and sisters are. marathi people at large have a deep sense of inferiority, which is being fanned by this 2 bit idiot called raj. This was done earlier by a political party when they had the slogan…. Garv se kaho hum hindu hain. It led to the babri masjid.
If we do not wake up now, something worse is round the corner.
This is a free country. It is not a conglomeration of willing or un willing states. wake up my dear maharashtrians, or we will have nothing to be proud of.
shhh...now
020
2:30 pm
Most objective piece on Mutiny in recent times. Congratulations, Raj.
I know what exacxtly you are describing. Albeit cynically. But you are only describing, not giving a blueprint to anyone. You are describing the ground reality. Whether anyone likes it or not, that is the situation everywhere.
In AP, Manipur, Kashmir, Bihar, Jharkhand, even Delh…in some pockets, some classes, some castes….evrywhere…that has been the case. For years now.
Like you said, MNS is just another face of that fanaticism. There is no need to be outraged just because Raj is the nephew of a man who wears saffron. He is just a highly ambitious young man who deseperately needs to garner space on Maharashtra political stage since there is not much time left.
Violence is bad. Lives lost is inexcusable. Anywhere, any time, by anyone, on any pretext. But then they do it. And they will continue to. So, do something about it. Why rant here when someone gets close to the Inconvenient Truth on Indian electorate? Does it prick you somewhere personally?
You were lambasting Raj Thackjeray and MNS too. But then at Mutiny, they see red at saffron. And, so there won’t be any other way they will see your piece.
And, Raj, now you have company. Now, they will bash me. You are not alone, my friend!!
shhh...now
021
2:35 pm
And 1con, my Greek God…u are safee…..safe enuff for another round of boxing under the veil. THANK GOD!!!
(But which God?? Better stay away from Ram. Or Ram will end up in LIlavati. Lemme decide that later)
KSR
022
3:16 pm
Raj is insane, there and here. Politics is beyond the crookedness your mind can comprehend, let alone create.
Give Raj a chance? For what? Your logic is that in power he will obviously not do what he does to get to power. Fine. But still the ‘why’ remains. Why give him the power?
Marathis asking for marathi language menu is good because ………. If you like to appreciate local culture, read marathi literature. Watch some classics in marathi cinema. Abusing others and beating or killing them up is no one’s culture.
A man who roams around in his audi asks you to hit out at poor workers from other states and you idiots feel ‘identity’ and ’solitary’ as fellow ‘marathis’ - go get some psychic treatment for a disease called ‘INFERIORITY COMPLEX” for thats what all marathis who support the idiot suffer from.
1conoclast
023
4:39 pm
shhh…now,
Please talk sense.
We’ve already got a dose of nonsense this piece…
You really should be ashamed of yourself for not taking a strong stand against the evil that sweeps our country & actually siding with it; and taking veiled potshots at people who have the guts to express love for the idea that was India.
Shame…
Ketan
024
6:14 pm
Recently there was an issue of the Thackerey’s migration to Mumbai from some obscure place in MP.
What the hell happened to that “Questioin”?
The Thackerey’s have still not given an answer to this, and their claim to Mumbai.
1conoclast
025
6:43 pm
Ketan,
thakre’s have no answers to anything. I have a few answers here if you’d like:
http://mutiny.in/2008/10/22/ban-the-mns/#comment-62929
http://mutiny.in/2008/10/22/ban-the-mns/#comment-62938
and here onwards as well:
http://mutiny.in/2008/10/22/ban-the-mns/#comment-63018
Tell me what you think.
Do you think they’ll have any answers?
shhh...now
026
9:48 pm
1Con and ’sense’? U talking of talking sense. Check ur sentences again, my friend!
And fuck off?? Moderator? fuck off is not “Rude, inappropriate language of a personal manner?”
Drunkenoclast
027
10:21 pm
Fortunately for us, the readers of mutiny, this post was much better than the benchmark post for stupidity- Tata Nano and Gujarat.
The Marathis did not need a Raj Thackerey to teach them the basics of Marathi culture. They have always been proud of their heritage, and always stuck to it. The average Marathi loves to display the image of Shivaji Maharaj; just look at the no. of vehicles and shops flaunting it. Raj Thackerey succeeded in seizing the partial vacuum left by the inactive Shivsena. He just provoked them, and they did the job for him. It isn’t Raj Thackerey who is to be blamed. It is the people. The people who had the stupidity to cause riots on the streets of Mumbai for no valid reason. If Raj Thackerey had dared Vilasrao Deshmukh to arrest him, it was only because of the belief he had placed in the stupidity of the rude and chauvinistic Marathi Manoos on the streets. It is him to be blamed.
“Maharashtra only stands to gain from him.” For Shivaji’s sake, India is a union, not a federation.
why?
028
11:58 am
You think it was the PEOPLE of the state who went about the state trashing bhaiyas? Crap. Most of them are well paid goons. This argument of “its a revenge by the people of maharashtra”. It was a well orchestrated goondaism. Dont blame the people, its lame, inconsiderate and immature. Marathi Mumbaiites are kinda rude, and very very proud abt their Marathiness, but not like they ll all go one the streets to kill.
No, this post was as lame as that dumb post abt Tata Nano. Why it looks Ok is because we are all too used to seeing extremist 1con do nothing but trash ‘right-wingers’. This is a good change, I am amazed there is no one from the edit team claiming proudly that we let in posts supporting rightists too…!
Zishaan
029
12:52 pm
Dude, what were you smoking when you wrote this article?
Raj
030
1:36 pm
@WHY
“Marathi Mumbaiites are kinda rude”
@Drunkenoclast
“It isn’t Raj Thackerey who is to be blamed. It is the people. The people who had the stupidity to cause riots on the streets of Mumbai for no valid reason. If Raj Thackerey had dared Vilasrao Deshmukh to arrest him, it was only because of the belief he had placed in the stupidity of the rude and chauvinistic Marathi Manoos on the streets. It is him to be blamed.”
@Bombay Indian
“marathi people at large have a deep sense of inferiority, which is being fanned by this 2 bit idiot called raj. ”
U sure Raj Thackeray is the only one being racist???
why?
031
2:04 pm
Yeah, but we dont go out and kill people on the streets. And no, I am not a force which can turn people around and change people’s opinion. Are we and a political leader with responsibilities the same?
Utopianthots
032
3:35 pm
Ok Raj, lets start at the very begining “It is not very difficult to understand the motives behind Raj’s vociferous stance for reserving 80% of the low level jobs for Maharahstrians”
If I was a Maharastrian I would be very offended with you and RT both, cause this statement insinuates that 80% of Maharastrians are fit only for low level jobs. Thats some faith in your own community.
Lets do something lets pick any of the guys walking on the street to be the CM cause he is also eager to prove himself and be famous too. Added advantage, he may not have blood on his hands.
You obviously dont understand the plight on this guys who lives below poverty line and is coming here only to earn his living- he doesnt view it as a strategy of putting Maharastrians out of job. Thats the prerogative of people like RT who sit in AC chambers and have nothing better to do. Shame on you to even endorse a view like that
bhavesh vaity
033
3:59 pm
Raj thackeray is right for mumbaikars though wrong for some outsiders…
Sufferings of Mumbaikars are discussed with him everyday at his residence.
What ever he is doing is 100% right. Mumbai Vakil (Lawyers) association is ready to fight his case in any court for whatever he is doing coz he has proved his points to be 100% correct though challenging constitution which wanted to bring everyone equal rights but every state has different laws and order hence no one can touch him..
And we support him….
he can prove change agent for politics in Maharashtra as well as India coz there are 10000 members registered in his party of which 95% are youths. And more than 25 lakhs were on streets of maharashtra when he was arrested. And SME entrepreneurs of Mumbai all new youths have affiliations with MNS Bollywoods cine workers association, Mumbaikar youth forum have supported him, Also Marathi Literature and cine stars were on street following Salman Khan, Nana Patekar, etc who challenged police when Raj was barred from speaking.
MNS will grow in long run which is threat for Samaajwadi, RJD and BSP who are starting units in Mumbai and have no local people and are creating artificial vote banks by promoting illegal slums.
Raj_Thackeray_zindabad
034
4:13 pm
The comments made by outsiders like why?, drunkens et al should clear all the doubts why Rajsaheb is getting support and accolades from all over Maharashtra. While no one will justify the voilence of any kind from any one, the most important question of discrimination of Marathi manoos in his own country by the bihari railway ministry and rough outsiders is not being answered by anyone. Answer and find soultion to this problem first and then talk of MNS and Rajsaheb.
Its very satisfying to see outsiders feeling the heat and ‘complex’ due to MNS andolans. I would request Rajsaheb (and i will call him and other MNSmen by this respectful tone to annoy outsiders more) to thrash the people like why? drunken etc etc and all those prejudiced outsiders, bureaucrats etc. THRASH THEM rather than poor bihari people and students.
Utopianthots
035
4:24 pm
Bhavesh, the last I heard Mumbai was a part of India so where does the outsider figure? For all the strengthts that you have outlined for MNS how does it justify beating up people. Most importantly, Mumbai happens to be a part of Maharashtra but its more cosmopolitian than any other city and is renowened for it. This kind of politics will destoy the fabric of the city. You think industries would want to come and set up here with vandalism on the rise?
Narrow minded people like you just add to our woes-think man think!
why?
036
5:00 pm
@ Raj_Thackrey_ ….
Your problem is you see me as an outsider, the same problem ever Sainik in Mumbai has. By the way, I love Mumbai and I am looking at making my career there. I am not a marathi, and I still have as much right as you do to do what i want in the city. You are welcome to come to my city if you choose to.
bhavesh vaity
037
5:06 pm
@ Utopianthots
Before calling me narrow minded and all ask your beloved laloo, Paswan and Nitish kumar to develop your states it was also discussed in Lokasabha where Laloo was questioned what steps had been taken to develop Bihar. Set SEZ’s or 100% free trade area….
And also ask Kerala Govt to stop 80% for sons of the Soil what they have coz India is one and everyone has right to go anywhere.
Tell Assamese not to kill Hindi speaking people
Tell Punjabis not to hit Biharis if you want proooffff
go on orkut and follow this link which say save punjab from Bhaiyas i.e. UP/Biharis
http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#Community.aspx?cmm=31364543
And if narrow minded is really than its you coz Globalisation and equality doesnt mean giving your everything to any one
every place has its own culture, tradition, language, society etc when it gets disturbed there is agitation and same happeing in Mumbai.
We the Kolis are original Inhabitants of Mumbai read history.
Trailblazer
038
6:51 pm
http://mutiny.in/2008/10/22/ban-the-mns/
Everything I have got to say. Also read the comments please.
“Sense is a lost desire”…..
why?
039
7:02 pm
@bhavesh
Oh, your logic being Punjabis ll hit Bhaiyas so i too shall hit them. Too good.
You talk abt giving everything of yours to everyone, what about what you have taken from them? Are you ready to give awayt all the development the ‘outsiders’ have brought?
No place has its own culture, it is what people bring there. Cuture evolves as people change, more people come and people leave from a place.
Immigration has always happened. I hope u have read at least one version of the aryan invasion theory. ALL of us are immigrants.
Are the Thackreys originally from Maharashtra?
1conoclast
040
10:18 pm
shhh…now @ 026,
Shhh! If you don’t have anything better than that to offer, then it’s best not to say anything at all. You can’t see the sense??? Sigh…!
Drunkenoclast @ 027,
Thank you. Some sense!
why? @ 028,
Bang on!
1. Give me your reasons why the right-wing should be spared the trashing, and I’ll give it up.
2. I can’t speak for the Edit team, but to me, this is what the Mutiny is: Mutiny doesn’t support rightists at all. Nor does it support leftists. It has no leanings. Mutiny attempts to be a movement that revives “the India feeling”! And strongly opposes any divisive, regressive forces. It’s a platform where those who feel for a united India can express themselves.
Unfortunately because it’s a free for all type of platform, even rightists get their say. Then it’s up the discernment of readers like you & me.
bhavesh vaity @ 033…
Enough bragging. Show us good work in Vidharbha. Show us a win in the elections. Then we’ll talk. OK?
idiot @ 034,
You think being arrested & vilified all over = accolades???
bhavesh vaity @ 037…
ONLY the Kolis are. Not the other Maharashtrians! They’re also migrants into Bombay! EVen you know that, don’t you?
why? @ 036 & 039,
For once you seem to be doing something worthy. Since you’re fighting the battle here, I’ll leave you to it. I have other battles to fight, don’t I?
Good going anyway.
1conoclast
041
10:21 pm
All,
One more point:
You remember the Bainsla led Gujjar agitation in Rajasthan, don’t you? How many people actually believe that bainsla is going to become a political giant because of that prolonged & much more violent agitation? LAUGHABLE, isn’t it?
b33j
042
12:34 am
the real reason this poster wants MNS elected is to see the BJP biting the dust. As events have shown pimping kashmiri seperatists or bangladeshis is kosher as long as its a means to the end of keeping the BJP out of power. I agree the fascists are greater threat to India, than islamists or MNS.
why?
043
12:37 am
@1con
I feel so warm. Thanks.
Nope, no reason not to thrash the right wing. But thats not my problem. You give me one reason why EVERY post AND comment of yours in mutiny, even if it is wishing everyone a happy dussera, should be about thrashing the right-wing.
sanjukta
044
7:14 am
@Why? on comment no.28
Edit team need not make noise to claim it, for it is obvious no?
Another information you might be interested in, the post was published by a single vote from the edit team
We have always been telling all our readers, whether right, left, center, perpendicular, diagonal, over, beneath or beyond ( :P) …that we allow all opinions as long as it is original and not hateful or abusive and has a bit more depth than a mere rant.
But we seldom get contributions from right winged writers. I must reiterate they are all always welcome.
On behalf of Mutiny Edit team.
sanjukta
045
7:18 am
@1con on comment no. 40
Friend, it is not ‘unfortunate’ that rightist get their say. It is fortunate that we live in this wonderful secular democracy where every opinion are heard and like you yourself said, that’s what Mutiny represents
why?
046
11:49 am
“We have always been telling all our readers, whether right, left, center, perpendicular, diagonal, over, beneath or beyond ( :P) …that we allow all opinions as long as it is original and not hateful or abusive and has a bit more depth than a mere rant.”
Ah….yeah there, that was all i was looking for.
1conoclast
047
4:44 pm
why? @ 043,
You’re welcome.
I’d like it if you were a little more exact. Not every post of mine addresses the sangh parivar. You should re-check before making that extravagant claim. Most of my posts might.
Besides it’s no secret that I have made it my mini-mission in life to educate the reading public about the evil that they represent. Since you won’t do it, someone’s gotta do it.
But your feedback is welcome. Probably the point you’re trying to make is that it’s overkill on my part or something of the sort. However, I’d only be concerned if I was trying to create a journalistic reputation. My intention is not that. It is to try & save the Indian mindset from getting corrupted by what the aforesaid is trying to propogate.
sanjukta @ 045,
Sweetheart. It seems unfortunate to me. I can say it. I’m not bound shackled by the responsibility of being on the Edit Team yet!
Raj_Thackeray_zindabad
048
5:51 pm
@why
listen dude, of course any Indian has right to come to Maharashtra and make career there. But its u see since Marathi speakers are the sons of soil, they belong Mumbai more than anyone else. Its like we all are brothers, all brothers are welcome and live here but not at the cost of the host.
And to an extent, as someone said, Marathis in general have inferiority complex and lack of assertiveness and pride in their language and culture. Marathis need to introspect. However if someone says we are not capable of getting 4th grade rly jobs or we are uncultured goons then he is wrong.
@1conoclast
Kolis are Maharashtrians and we all Marathi speakers are one. We dont need an outsider who doesnt speak Marathi to advice us abt who are migrants and who are not. This state has carved out on basis one language which means all Marathi speakers are sons of soil and those who cant, which includes people like u who live here but dont bother respect local language, are outsiders.
Regarding Thackerays, i will tell u why Maha govt cant touch them. I will tell you why loutsiders cursings wont affect them, its because majority of Marathi manoos will take it as contempt, if they do so. NCP and Congress will bite the dust if they do so.
why?
049
6:10 pm
Raj,
there is no use trying to convince a person who is convinced against his will. you contradict yourself. your words like “sons of soil” and “host” are all stupid. the point is this, we are all sons of the same soil, India, if at all we have to believe in some concept called sons of soil. i am ur brother then you are not my host.
Listen, i dont even think marathis shud be blamed for the violence. its goons like Raj, who take advantage of people’s stupid emotions.
uh…… your comments are getting stupider by the time. stop here, just accept u r a fanatic and ur only reason to defend raj is that u r inseure in your own state.
Raj_Thackeray_zindabad
050
6:45 pm
“contradict yourself. your words like “sons of soil” and “host” are all stupid. the point is this, we are all sons of the same soil, India, if at all we have to believe in some concept called sons of soil. i am ur brother then you are not my host.”
You are wrong dude! The concept of ‘being a domicile of a state’ is legal and administrative practice all over India. How can you and i be the sons of soil when my forefathers have lived and died here, have paid taxes and built the city and state what it is today? Go to seek admission in engg college, for example, in any state of India and the domiciled students have an quota. Also, 80% jobs are reserved for LOCALS. Its according to the law. its easy to belive in biased reporting by bhayyas in Hindi news channels!
“just accept u r a fanatic and ur only reason to defend raj is that u r inseure in your own state.”
I am a fanatic for securing my rights. Fighting injustice is no wrong. And of course i feel insecure in my own state thanks to outsiders who are spreading like epidemic. I want many Raj Thackerays to emerge and secure Marathi manoos.
Sanjukta
051
7:43 pm
Everytime there is a regionalism issue these regional fanatics who are hell bent upon breaking this nation into pieces will come up with one stupid argument, that of Taxes
How can you and i be the sons of soil when my forefathers have lived and died here, have paid taxes and built the city and state what it is today?
I mean how ignorant are you about the tax structure of the country? Who told you that it is by your tax money that the state or city is built?
Central Govt imposes the mos imp taxes on each and every citizen of the country. Heck the central govt imposes taxes even on NRIs….so the bloody city is made by people who probably don’t even stay in India. The biggest amount of revenue in the nature of - Income tax, central duty, custom excise and service tax are being paid equally by every citizen in the country.
The infrastructures on which a Maratha lives is very much a property of a naga, mizo or a bhaiya or whatever.
This is one country, one property, one earning, one spending, we are all ONE.
This is actually getting scary, the way we are losing the sense of Unity….
1conoclast
052
12:01 am
idiot @ 048 & 050…
sons of the soil…? Maati ke putle???
Jokes apart, what makes you believe that the Marathi beongs to Bombay?
The Marathi is an immigrant into Bombay like everyone else. That’s a historical fact & isn’t as easy to change as the name. Bombay was built by the Brits when it was just a bunch of fishing village islands.
Secondly, what makes you think that the Marathi is the host? I’m not a guest in my own country!!! If I’m unwilling to give up an inch of Kashmir to the pakis, what makes you think I’ll ever accept that I have less right over Bombay than someone else?
Please understand the statement before you speak. Bombay was initially only inhabited by the Kolis. If there is any community that can lay claim to being the original inhabitants, it is them. Language is an altogether different story. If you know history you will know that Bombay initially wasn’t even part of Maharashtra. It was just Maharashtra’s good fortune that they got it as their state capital, otherwise there was a good chance that they’d be stuck with Pune or Nagpur or something else as their state capital, with Bombay being a UT. Any other Marathi speaker cannot on the basis of language or history lay any claim to Bombay. And isn’t there a sizeable Konkani speaking population in Maharashtra? According to you, do they have lesser right over Bombay because they speak Konkani & not Marathi? Please think carefully before you make stupid statements.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, contrary to your silly claims, you have ALWAYS need outsiders to advise you or teach you. Let’s go down the history route again, shall we?
1. You needed an outsider to get you independence, a Gujrati.
2. You need outsiders to run Bombay’s stock market for you, Gujratis again.
3. You need outsiders to get you vegetables, get you milk & to run your kirana stores for you.
4. Outsiders again to give you employment - Tata, Birla, Ambani, Bajaj etc. etc.
5. Even the thakres who lead are outsiders, they came from MP.
6. An outsider to teach you about who is a migrant in Bombay & who isn’t!
The Govt. has already touched thakre. If he’s wise he’ll learn, or he’ll be touched much harder. And once I’ve educated the Marathi manoos about being an Indian first, they too will stop supporting him.
raj thakre is wasted sperm. More like him will only make the Marathi manoos feel more insecure, not more secure. He playing on their insecurity. He’s just using them.
why?
053
12:35 am
@”Raj_thackrey…” i guess i dont have to repeat what they have said.
Btw, Icon, you think you can “try & save the Indian mindset from getting corrupted” by spereading hatred about them? Dont think so! How many ‘jerks’ like me in Mutiny have you been able to change by spitting venom against the saffroners?
I believe the means can go to hell if the ends are good. but if the end-result is not really great and more or less the same, or rather worse than before, you need to change your means.
1conoclast
054
1:11 am
why?…
Even if I can change the point of view one person, that’s good enough for me.
And as a matter of fact there have been 2 gentlemen, Pranav & Arjun who have found sound sense in what I’ve said. You can trawl the comments sections for proof of their agreement. Now if those 2 can convince another 2 & so on & so forth, my job is done!
Then there are others who don’t return to the argument when they see sense (example Annanya Deb).
Don’t worry. You will come around too. I see great potential in you.
Plus I believe that I am educating the reading public about the “saffroners” not spitting venom against them. My style may be aggressive, but heck I’m an Amitabh Bachchan fan! Please read my latest on the home page. It’s meant for you.
राज यांचा आवाज दडपण्याचा सर्वपक्षीय प्रयत्न
055
11:14 am
राज ठाकरे यांनी १८ मार्च २००६ रोजी महाराष्ट्र नवनिर्माण सेनेची स्थापना केली आणि ९ मे रोजी मनसेची शिवाजीपार्क मैदानावर अभूतपूर्व अशी विराट सभा झाली. या पहिल्या सभेतच त्यांनी, ‘मी मराठी महाराष्ट्र माझा’ हे आपल्या पक्षाचे सूत्र असल्याचे ठासून सांगितले. मनसे जातपात मानत नाही म्हणूनच मनसेच्या झेंड्यात भगव्याबरोबरच निळा आणि हिरवाही रंग आहे. मनसेकडे सुशिक्षित मध्यमवगीर्य तरुणांप्रमाणेच दलितही मोठ्या संख्येने आकषिर्त झालेले आहेत. महाराष्ट्र आणि मराठी हा राज यांचा एकमेव अजेंडा आहे. रेल्वे रिक्रुटमेंट बोर्डाने योजलेल्या परीक्षेसाठी बिहार व अन्य राज्यांतून मोठ्या संख्येने मुले महाराष्ट्रात आल्यानंतर मराठी मुलांच्या भवितव्यावर आक्रमण होत आहे, यासाठी मनसेने आवाज उठवला. बाहेरच्या मुलांची पिटाई झाली, परीक्षा उधळली गेली. राज यांना अटक झाल्यावर राज्यात अनेक शहरांत असंतोषाचा डोंब उसळला. मराठी मुलांना मराठी राज्यात नोकऱ्या मिळाव्यात यासाठी आंदोलन केले म्हणून महाराष्ट्राच्या सरकारने आंदोलकांविरुद्ध कायद्याचा बडगा उगारला. राज यांनी नवीन काहीही सांगितले नव्हते, त्यांचे आंदोलनही नवे नव्हते. रेल्वे भरती परीक्षा महाराष्ट्रात होणार हे मनसेला समजते पण सरकारला ठाऊक नसते, यावर विश्वास कोण ठेवेल? सरकारमध्ये काम करणाऱ्या मंत्र्यांचा आणि प्रशासनाचा ग्रासरूटशी संबंध राहिलेला नाही, त्याचे हे ताजे उदाहरण आहे. परिस्थिती हाताबाहेर गेल्यावर, दगडफेक, मोडतोड, जाळपोळ आणि रस्ता रोको झाल्यावर कायदा हातात घेऊ देणार नाही, दंगलखोरांना कठोर शिक्षा दिल्याशिवाय शासन गप्प बसणार नाही ही राज्यर्कत्यांची नेहमीची टेप ऐकून जनता कंटाळली आहे. राज यांना अटक करून आणि त्यांचे पदाधिकारी व कार्यकतेर् यांना पोलिसांकरवी बदडून यापुढे मराठी तरुणांना नोकऱ्यांत प्राधान्य मिळणार आहे काय, हा खरा प्रश्न आहे. मूळ प्रश्नाकडे दुर्लक्ष करून राज यांना व्हिलन ठरविण्यासाठी सर्वच राजकीय पक्षांत स्पर्धा चालू आहे आणि सरकार गृहखात्याच्या माध्यमातून तो खेळ खेळत आहे. राज यांचा मुुद्दा बरोबर आहे, पण आंदोलन चुकीचे आहे, अशी सारवासारवी करून काहीजण दोन्ही दरडींवर हात ठेवत आहेत.
महाराष्ट्रात मराठी लोकांना न्याय मिळावा म्हणून केवळ आपणच रस्त्यावर येऊन लढा देऊ शकतो हे राज यांनी दोन वर्षांत दाखवून दिले आहे. आपला मूळचा मराठी अजेंडा राज यांनी केव्हाच खेचून घेतला आहे म्हणून शिवसेनेची अडचण झाली आहे. शिवसेना तोडण्यासाठी काँग्रेस-राष्ट्रवादीने मनसेशी हातमिळवणी केली आहे, असा शोध भाजपने लावला आहे. शिवसेनेची व्होट बँक तोडण्याचे काम राजच करू शकतील अशी समजूत काँग्रेस व राष्ट्रवादी काँग्रेसची होती; प्रत्यक्षात या दोन्ही प्रमुख पक्षांतील मराठी कार्यकतेर् आणि नेत्यांच्या मुलांनाही मनसेचे आकर्षण वाटू लागल्याने त्यांच्या नेत्यांना, राज यांना कसे आवरावे या भयगंडाने पछाड़ले आहे.
रेल्वे बोर्डाच्या परीक्षेच्या जाहिराती सर्व प्रमुख मराठी वृत्तपत्रांत का येत नाहीत? महाराष्ट्रातील भरतीच्या जाहिराती बिहार व उत्तर प्रदेशात का दिल्या जातात? महाराष्ट्रात केवळ हिंदी व इंग्रजीतच का परीक्षा होते? त्या-त्या राज्यात तेथील भाषेत परीक्षा घ्यावी असा नियम असताना महाराष्ट्रात मराठीतून परीक्षा घेऊ नये, असे कोणी ठरवले? खलाशी वा मजूर म्हणून परीक्षेला हजारोंच्या संख्येने उत्तर भारतीय येतात, ते काही शिकलेले नसतात, ते काही जाहिराती वाचून येत नाहीत, त्यांना मुंबईला कोण पाठवते? आपल्या राज्याचा कोटा पूर्ण झाला की हिंदी भाषिकांच्या झुंडी महाराष्ट्राकडे कशा वळवल्या जातात? देशाचे सर्वाधिक रेल्वेमंत्री बिहारला मिळाले; पण महाराष्ट्राला कायम उत्तर भारतातून येणाऱ्या गाड्या मिळाल्या. गेल्या वषीर्च्या डिसेंबरपासूनच राज यांनी मराठीसाठी लढा सुरू केला. छटपूजेला मनसेने विरोध केलेला नव्हता, पण मुंबईतील चौपाट्यांवर छटपूजेचे राजकारण करणाऱ्यांना सज्जड दम दिला. त्यावर लालू यादव यांनी शिवाजी पार्कला येऊन छटपूजा करण्याची धमकी दिली होती. गेल्यावषीर् ५५ हजार मराठी मुलांनी रेल्वे बोर्डाची परीक्षा दिली व त्यात केवळ ५४ उत्तीर्ण झाले. यावषीर् एक लाख २५ हजार मराठी मुलांनी परीक्षा दिली; त्यापैकी केवळ ८२ उत्तीर्ण झाले. हे कसे हे सर्व गूढ आहे. मराठी मुले एवढी ढ आहेत काय? रेल्वे वेगवेगळ्या झोनमध्ये परीक्षा कशासाठी घेते? त्या त्या विभागातील मुलांना तेेथे नोकऱ्या मिळाव्यात हासुद्धा त्यामागे हेतू आहे. अन्य झोनमध्ये बिहारींची दादागिरी फारशी चालत नाही. मग महाराष्ट्रात भरती करताना मराठी मुलांना जाणूनबुजून नापास केले जाते असे सरकारला वाटत नाही का?
राज यांच्या अटकेनंतर मराठी तरुणांनी रस्त्यावर येऊन आक्रोश केल्यानंतर छगन भुजबळ आणि नारायण राणे हे दोनच मंत्री मराठीच्या मुद्यावर हिम्मतीने बोलले. पण सरकार म्हणून या मुद्यावर रेल्वेमंत्र्यांना जाब विचारावा असे कोणाला वाटले नाही. गोव्यातून बिहारींना तेथील लोकांनी हाकलून दिले होते. आसाममध्ये १४ बिहारींची हत्या झाली. पाटणा- तिरूवनंतपुरम रेल्वेची घोषणा झाली तेव्हा आम्हाला ही गाडी नको म्हणून तिरूवनंतपुरमला निदर्शने झाली. दिल्लीच्या मुख्यमंत्री शीला दीक्षित यांनीही बिहारींनी दिल्लीची कशी वाट लावली असे उदगार काढले होते. परप्रांतीयांच्या लोंढ्यामुळे आय-कार्ड सक्तीचे करावे असे दिल्लीच्या नायब राज्यपालांनीच सुचवले होते. ओरिसामध्ये रेल्वेत स्थानिक लोकांपेक्षा बिहारींची भरती झाली अशी तक्रार भाजपच्याच खासदारांनी केली. कर्नाटकमध्ये बिहारींची मोठी भरती झाली तेव्हा रेल्वे स्टेशनवर कन्नडिगांनी आंदोलन केले. या उदेकाविरुद्ध संसदेत ‘ब्र’सुद्धा कोणी उच्चारला नाही. मालेगावला आंदोलक मुलांना पोलिसांनी बेदम पिटून काढल्यावर तेथे सर्वपक्षीय बंद पाळला गेला. त्यामध्ये काँग्रेस आणि राष्ट्रवादीही होतेच. निदान यापासून तरी सरकारने बोध घ्यायला हवा. राजवर कायदेशीर कारवाई होत राहील, परंतु या आंदोलनामध्ये सरकारला मराठी मन अजिबातच ओळखता आलेले नाही.
why?
056
11:23 am
oh please, I am quite in my senses already. I dont see the potential u see in me. Too bad. I ll always believe over-thrashing cannot be the answer to anything, it leads to more problems. And its the the ‘ahimsa’ logic, it is simple human tendancy. How many fools have u angered with your posts, and have just made them stronger in their ridiculous point of view? A full-bred hindutvi will only get angrier after reading your posts.
@Jerk above, you think someone here ll take the effort read that?
why?
057
11:30 am
* its NOT the ahimsa logic , i meant
INTERESTING HISTORY!
058
11:45 am
Now that the point of being outsider has come up let me inform you about some more facts…..
Nehru-Gandhi Pariwar has done nationwide eyewash for 50 years .
They r not even gandhis but still en-cashing votes in the name of M K Gandhi
INTERESTING HISTORY!
At the very beginning of his book, “The Nehru Dynasty”, astrologer K.N.Rao mentions the names of Jawaharlal’s father and grandfather. Jawahar Lal’s father was believed to be Motilal and Motilal’s father was one Gangadhar Nehru.
And we all know that Jawaharlal’s only daughter was Indira Priyadarshini Nehru; Kamala Nehru was her mother, who died in Switzerland of tuberculosis. She was totally against Indira’s proposed marriage with Feroze.
Why? No one tells us that! Now, who is this Feroze?
We are told by many that he was the son of the family grocer. The grocer supplied wines,etc. to Anand Bhavan (previously known as Ishrat Manzil) What was the family grocer’s name? One frequently hears that Rajiv Gandhi’s grandfather was Pandit Nehru. But then we all know that everyone has two grandfathers, the paternal and the maternal grandfathers. In fact, the paternal grandfather is deemed to be the more important grandfather in most societies.
Why is it then, no where, we find Rajiv Gandhi’s paternal grandfather’s name?
It appears that the reason is simply this. Rajiv Gandhi’s paternal grandfather was a Muslim gentleman from the Junagadh area of Gujarat.
This Muslim grocer by the name of Nawab Khan, had married a Parsi woman after converting her to Islam.
This is the source where from the myth of Rajiv being a Parsi was derived. Rajiv’s father Feroze, was Feroze Khan before he married Indira, against Kamala Nehru’s wishes.
Feroze’s mother’s family name was Ghandy, often associated with Parsis and this was changed to Gandhi,sometime before his wedding with Indira, by an affidavit.
The fact of the matter is that (and this fact can be found in many writings) Indira was very lonely. Chased out of the Shantiniketan University by Guru Dev Rabindranath himself for misdemeanor, the lonely girl was all by herself, while father Jawahar was busy with politics, pretty women and illicit sex; the mother was in hospital.
Feroze Khan, the grocer’s son was then in England and he was quite sympathetic to Indira and soon enough she changed her religion, became a Muslim woman and married Feroze Khan in a London mosque.
Nehru was not happy; Kamala was dead already or dying.
The news of this marriage eventually reached Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (better known as Mahatma Gandhi).
Gandhi urgently called Nehru and practically ordered him to ask the young man to change his name from Khan to Gandhi. It had nothing to do with change of religion, from Islam to Hinduism for instance.
It was just a case of a change of name by an affidavit.
And so Feroze Khan became Feroze Gandhi.
The surprising thing is that the apostle of truth, the old man soon to be declared India’s Mahatma and the ‘Father of the Nation’ didn’t mention this game of his in the famous book, ‘My Experiments with Truth’. Why?
When they returned to India, amock ‘Vedic marriage’ was instituted for public consumption.
On this subject,writes M.O. Mathai (a longtime Private Secretary of Nehru) in his renowned (but now suppressed by the GOI! ) ‘Reminiscences of the Nehru Age’ on page94, second paragraph: “For some inexplicable reason, Nehru allowed the marriage to be performed according to Vedic rites in 1942. An inter-religious and inter-caste marriage under Vedic rites at that time was not valid in law. To be legal, it had to be a civil marriage.”
It’s a known fact that after Rajiv’s birth Indira and Feroze lived separately, but they were not divorced.
Feroze used to harass Nehru frequently for money and also interfere in Nehru’s political activities. Nehru got fed up and left instructions not to allow him into the Prime Minister’s residence Trimurthi Bhavan.
Mathai writes that the death of Feroze came as a relief to Nehru and Indira. The death of Feroze in 1960 before he could consolidate his own political forces, is itself a mystery. Feroze had even planned to remarry. Those who try to keep tabs on our leaders in spite of all the suppressions and deliberate misinformation, are aware of the fact that the second son of Indira (or Mrs.Feroze Khan) known as Sanjay Gandhi was not the son of Feroze.
He was the son of another Muslim gentleman, Mohammad Yunus.
Here, in passing, we might mention that the second son was originally named Sanjiv. It rhymed with Rajiv, the elder brother’s name.
It was changed to Sanjay when he was arrested by the British police in England and his passport impounded, for having stolen a car.
Krishna Menon was then India’s High Commissioner in London. He offered to issue another passport to the felon who changed his name to Sanjay.
Incidentally, Sanjay’s marriage with the Sikh girl Menaka (now they call her Maneka for Indira Gandhi found the name of mythological Lord Indra’s Court dancer rather offensive !!) took place quite surprisingly in Mohammad Yunus’s house in New Delhi.
And the marriage with Menaka who was a model (She had model for Bombay Dyeing wearing just a towel) was not so ordinary either.
Sanjay was notorious in getting unwed young women pregnant.
Menaka too was rendered pregnant by Sanjay.
It was then that her father,Colonel Anand, threatened Sanjay with dire consequences if he did not marry her daughter. And that did the trick. Sanjay married Menaka.
It was widely reported in Delhi at the time that Mohammad Yunus was unhappy at the marriage of Sanjay with Menaka. Apparently he had wanted to get him married with a Muslim girl of his choice.
It was Mohammad Yunus who cried the most when Sanjay died in the plane accident.
In Yunus’s book, ‘Persons, Passions & Politics’ one discovers that baby Sanjay had been circumcised following Islamic custom, although the reason stated was phimosis.
It was always believed that Sanjay used to blackmail Indira Gandhi and due to this she used to turn a blind eye when Sanjay Gandhi started to run the country as though it were his personal freedom. Was he black mailing her with the secret of who his real father was?
When the news of Sanjay’s death reached Indira Gandhi, the first thing she wanted to know was about the bunch of keys which Sanjay had with him.
Nehru was no less a player in producing bastards. At least one case is very graphically described by M.O. Mathai in his “Reminiscences of the NehruAge”, page 206.
Mathai writes: “In the autumn of 1948 a young woman from Benares arrived in New Delhi as a sanyasini named Shraddha Mata (an assumed and not a real name). She was a Sanskrit scholar well versed in the ancient Indian scriptures and mythology. People, including MPs, thronged to her to hear her discourses. One day S.D. Upadhyaya, Nehru’s old employee, brought a letter in Hindi from Shraddha Mata. Nehru gave her an interview in the PM’s house. As she departed, I noticed (Mathai is speaking here) that she was young, shapely and beautiful. Meetings of Nehru with her became rather frequent, mostly after he finished his work at night. During one of Nehru’s visits to Lucknow, Shraddha Mata turned up there and Upadhyaya brought a letter from her as usual. Nehru sent her the reply and she visited Nehru at midnight…“ Suddenly Shraddha Mata disappeared.
In November 1949 a convent in Bangalore sent a decent looking person to Delhi with a bundle of letters. He said that a young woman from northern India arrived at the convent a few months ago and gave birth to a baby boy. She refused to divulge her name or give any particulars about herself. She left the convent as soon as she was well enough to move out but left the child behind. She however forgot to take with her a small cloth bundle in which, among other things, several letters in Hindi were found. The Mother Superior, who was a foreigner, had the letters examined and was told they were from the Prime Minister. The person who brought the letters surrendered them…”I (Mathai) made discreet inquiries repeatedly about the boy but failed to get a clue about his hereabouts. Convents in such matters are extremely tightlipped and secretive. Had I succeeded in locating the boy, I would have adopted him. He must have grown up as a Catholic Christian blissfully ignorant of who his father was.”
Coming back to Rajiv Gandhi, we all know now that he changed his so called Parsi religion to become a Catholic to marry Sania Maino of Turin, Italy.
Rajiv became Roberto.
His daughter’s name is Bianca and son’s name is Raul.
Quite cleverly the same names are presented to the people of India as Priyanka and Rahul.
What is amazing is the extent of our people’s ignorance in such matters. The press conference that Rajiv Gandhi gave in London after taking over as Prime minister of India was very informative. In this press conference, Rajiv boasted that he was NOT a Hindu but a Parsi. Mind you, speaking of the Parsi religion, he had no Parsi ancestor at all. His grandmother (father’s mother) had turned Muslim after having abandoned the Parsi religion to marry Nawab Khan.
It is the western press that waged a blitz of misinformation on behalf of Rajiv. From the New York Times to the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post, the big guns raised Rajiv to heaven.
The children’s encyclopedias recorded that Rajiv was a qualified Mechanical Engineer from the revered University of Cambridge.
No doubt US kids are among the most misinformed in the world today!
The reality is that in all three years of his tenure at that University Rajiv had not passed a single exam.
He had therefore to leave Cambridge without a certificate.
Sonia too had the same benevolent treatment. She was stated to be a student in Cambridge.
Such a description is calculated to mislead Indians. She was a student in Cambridge all right, but not of the University of Cambridge , but of one of those fly by night language schools where foreign students come to learn English.
Sonia was working as an ‘au pair’ girl in Cambridge and trying to learn English at the same time.
And surprise of surprises, Rajiv was even cremated as per Vedic rites in full view of India’s public.
This is the Nehru dynasty that India worships and now a foreigner leads a prestigious national party because of just one qualification being married into the Nehru family. Maneka Gandhi, though Indian, herself is being accepted by the non-Congress parties not because she was a former model or an animal lover, but for her links to the Nehru family.
eventually come out some day.
Dont allow the famous land of India (our motherland) to be looked down by others.
Spare a moment and check the background of each nominee.
A good-well nourished tree always bear good fruit.
You are responsible too.
Raj_Thackeray_zindabad
059
11:47 am
@1conoclast
First of all its MUMBAI and not bombay. Get this into ur head its MUMBAI.
Also as i said, u r no authority to tell if Marathis are immigrants are not. When centre accepted the lingual states concept, a Marathi speaking man be it from kolhapur or Gadchiroli, be it from Dhule or Ratnagiri, is son of soil and its legal acceptance is there in form of ‘domicile’.
”Bombay was initially only inhabited by the Kolis. If there is any community that can lay claim to being the original inhabitants, it is them”
Yes, and Kolis are Maharashtrians.
” Bombay initially wasn’t even part of Maharashtra.”
Maharashtra was formed in 1960 and since then it is capital of Maharashtra. dont make a fool of urself.
”It was just Maharashtra’s good fortune that they got it as their state capital, otherwise there was a good chance that they’d be stuck with Pune or Nagpur or something else as their state capital, with Bombay being a UT.”
This is the very reason we hate outsiders! Mumbai is obvious, justified part and capital of Maharashtra state. Outsiders have absolutely no say abt it. Read the histry and then touch this extremely emotive topic. Mumbai is Maharashtra’s capital first and everything else is last.
”MOST IMPORTANTLY, contrary to your silly claims, you have ALWAYS need outsiders to advise you or teach you. ”
Ironically, those talened outsiders are SUCCESSFUL only in Maharashtra! It is only now when Gujarat has started developing. Why these talened outsiders failed to rise in their state!!!
“The Govt. has already touched thakre”
Take it from me, govt cant dare to do it.Rajsaheb Thackeray is already a godfather. He has vast support in Maharashtra.
1conoclast
060
4:55 pm
Propaganda @ 058,
My respect for the Nehru-Gandhi clan grows because of their mixed lineage. They’re more Indian & more human & more international than you can ever hope to be. May India always be led by people of mixed-race so that they don’t have biases towards anyone!
idiot @ 059…
It’s Bombay. As a politician asked a stupid shiv sainki on NDTV the other day, in response to the same statement: “If you haven’t been able to change the name of the school that uddhav’s son studies in yet (Bombay Scottish), how do you expect anyone to care for your moom-bhai rhetoric? So, Bombay it is!
I’m telling you the truth. You can’t deny the truth. Authority or not, the truth is that apart from the Kolis all other Maharashtrians came into Bombay from other areas. Was Bombay the capital of Shivaji or Bajirao? No. What was it back then? Why didn’t these great Marathas try & settle it then? Here, read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mumbai#Ancient_period_.28200_BCE_-_1348_CE.29
According to the above link, the Mauryas were the first rulers of the islands in Ancient India. Do you know where the Mauryas were from? Bihar!
Here is a Tata Institute of Fundamental Research link that mentions ethnic groups in Bombay. They only mention the Kolis no other Maharashtrians: http://theory.tifr.res.in/bombay/history/ethnic/
Will you still argue despite proof being slapped in your face?
Read this also:
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/india-news/thackerays-came-to-mumbai-two-generations-ago-for-jobs_10064032.html
Please also focus on what happened before 1960. Hate outsiders all you like. As I pointed out, you’ve been dependent on them for quite a few things. Even now there’s me (an outsider whose home has been Maharasthra for the last 16 years) educating you about your own history!
You are very mistaken about outsiders not being successful. 6 states in India contribute to 50% of India’s GDP. Here’s the breakup:
http://www.mapsofindia.com/top-ten/india-finance/gdp-shares.html
And it is anyone’s guess what Maharashtra would be without Bombay. That is the only reason there was/is so much hue & cry over Bombay. It is your greed & insecurity that makes you want to hold on to Bombay. Do you want to read where Maharashtra would be without Bombay? Here:
Here’s the link: http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/04/01/stories/2005040100090900.htm
IMAGINE!!! West Bengal that I have always ridiculed as being a backward, commie state!
aankhen khulin kya?
raj is a nobody. One on one even I can take him. Whether it’s a verbal duel armed with statistics or anything else.
Sanjay
061
5:01 am
Heh, respect for the self-proclaimed royal family. Mixed lineage is right — one day calling themselves socialists, next day calling themselves free market reformers, another day inviting foreign investment, next day expressing their umbrage at foreign investors. Congress has no ideology — it’s just a party of graft, and only exists to sustain its cronyism. Having been all over the map when it comes to political planks and issues, who or what do they really stand for? Nothing, except of course themselves.
Utopianthots
062
11:01 am
Bhavesh,
Laloo and the rest of the junta you mentioned are no beloved of mine. Nobody is sating jobs for the son of the soil is wrong, but the fact is violence for that is wrong. And tell me why is it the responibility of Laloo to create a job, why not of you, me, Raj Tcakeray and the center. Is Bihar not a part of India? Or just because you are not a Bihari by birth it absolves you? Are you not an India?
As for Punjabis beating up Biharis-two wrongs dont make a right? What if Maharastrians in rest of India get bashed up?
Absolutely agree that Kolis are the original inhabitants of Mumbai (not Bomaby)-but you think RT is fightinf for you… By that logic, Biharis should stake a claim all over India we ruled this country remember history Maurya and Gupta dynasty and by your logic the Brits should stake a claim to the Railways and India again. No?
Stop suppoting provencial and parochial politics.
Jains
063
11:19 am
Absolutely right and valid point,
No doubt whatever MSN is doing in the Maharastra is against the Country and threat to the unity of the nation
But to blame on them we have to understand the root cause of the problem. I am a North Indian but understand the feeling of them also.
When India got freedom, Kashmir was a separate state and got included in India after the invasion of Pakistan
Most of the people there were Muslims and used to scare off with the mass population of Hindus in INDIA and that too from wounded Hindus who had just faced the disaster of partitions hence they demanded some separate rules like separate Flag, Constituency and constitution which was given too but taken back later.
They have been provided some special rule and regulation like Article 370 in which no out-sider can be settle there in J&K, specially the Hindus from the rest part of India can not come to the state for staying permanently and the Muslims-face of the Kashmir can be kept continuously.
At that time also Mr. Shyama Prasad Mukherjee protested against this article and try to make the government understand that in India there are also a lot of Groups ,castes, religions who are also committed to save their dominated face in a particular area and can demand the same thing in future. Although this time they all are united into one but in future some of them can be demand the same thing, you have given to the Muslims of J&K.
I n Maharashtra, Marathi people are very much dedicated towards their face of being a Maratha and when they saw the things that when Muslims face of J&K can be rooted out by coming the people from the rest part of India then Marathi face also of the maharastra can be rooted out in the same manner.
When Muslims domination in J&K can be kept continuously by the help of the constitution then Marathi domination should be kept in Maharastra too.
So for demanding the similar article form the constitution they (MNS/SS) are trying to gather Marathi people. And you will see if the government does not stop his discrimination on the base of the religion, especially, the same demand will be come from the other states of India.
As far as my views are concern government should not be biased to people. When he is giving some thing to Muslims of Kashmir he should give the same thing to the Hindus of Maharashtra. And if he really wants to keep the India United, he should also root out the article 370 from Kashmir.
Jains
064
11:41 am
Government itself is incresing the fire of “Kshetra Vad “. If the government is really serious to stop this , he should root out the special status of Kashmir.
Jains
065
11:44 am
Interesting History!
Well this is the face we never lision in any book or any TV- News.
This might be true. Infact Ghandhi Ji might be awared about the “realty” that is why he had suggesetd to bind up of the congress party after independant.
Jains
066
11:46 am
Because the character of the Congress leader was not good so the party did not paid attention on downing the Indian Society into the mud of Cooruption.
Jains
067
11:56 am
Shame on congress
Raj_Thackeray_zindabad
068
8:33 pm
@1conoclast
“If you haven’t been able to change the name of the school that uddhav’s son studies in yet (Bombay Scottish), how do you expect anyone to care for your moom-bhai rhetoric?”
Its MUMBAI. And its a shame that we still have court, stock market schools containing ******. Parties pledging. Parties supporting Marathi cause shud change this filth
“Was Bombay the capital of Shivaji or Bajirao? No. What was it back then? Why didn’t these great Marathas try & settle it then?”
I am amazed at ur logic. Was Kolkata capital bengalis from magadha period? Was Chennai capital of Cholas? Maratha empire was spread till Attack which is in Afghanistan! So according to ur logic it shud be in Maharashtra? I pity on u.
they only mention the Kolis no other Maharashtrians:
Thats it! Kolis are Maharashtians my boy. Pathare Prabhu, Agris all speak Marathi. Geographically Mumbai is Marathi land.
“You are very mistaken about outsiders not being successful. 6 states in India contribute to 50% of India’s GDP”
Mumbai gives approx 50-60% of Income tax. Mumbai railways give the lions share. Dhirubhai ambani, Amithab Bachhan (+ lakhs of outsiders) came to Maharashtra to be successfull. Which includes u, what happened ur successful (i doubt it!) HERE. Why r u not in ur beloved state???
”And it is anyone’s guess what Maharashtra would be without Bombay. ”
Navi Mumbai, Pune, Thane, Nagpur, Nashik, Aurangabad, Kolhapur. Have u ever heard abt them? And yeah if Maharashtra blocks Mumbai outsiders like u will die. whatever U drink, eat, consume comes FROM Maharashtra. Forget everything, water comes from Maharashtra!
”IMAGINE!!! West Bengal that I have always ridiculed as being a backward, commie state!”
And Maharashra wud have been the same if Sena hadnt ousted Communists fm here. (Not that im against Communism.)
”raj is a nobody. One on one even I can take him. Whether it’s a verbal duel armed with statistics or anything else.”
hahahaha!!! AWARD WINNING COMMENT. UR a bigger scum than ur leaders laloo amar or abu azmi. I swear ur even crazier than rahul raj. But u shudnt be killed, but preserved to entertain us more. Very funny dude im seriously ROFL.
Shh...Now
069
9:16 pm
Sanjukta (on behalf of edit team)
@comment 22. U don’t think askinf the writer and the subject to fuck off is rude inappropriate language of a personal nature. Or is that Mutiny slogan? ‘Fuck off!!’
The comment is still on. Did you say ‘edit’ team?
why?
070
1:27 pm
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/up-youth-beaten-to-death-aboard-a-mumbai-local/76947-3.html?from=rssfeed
Sad.
1conoclast
071
5:41 pm
sanjay @ 061…
Ever heard of “I contain multitudes”? Google it if you haven’t?
The Congress is the reason why you are exercising your freedom of speech today.
People have been baiting them for longer than we’ve been independent. It hasn’t worked. What makes you think you will make a difference?
idiot @ 068…
1. So you admit the failure of both the senas on that front? Why have they failed to change the name of one school when they could manage to change the name of the city? Any answers?
2. Kolis are Maharashtrians? Really? Why don’t you take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koli
History tells us that Bombay was inhabited since the 3rd Century BC.
History also tells us that Marathi is only a 1300 year old language.
Who inhabited the islands of Bombay before Marathi came into existence?
Is Bombay theirs?
3. The thing that I am not able to understand is this:
Are you using the History crutch to establish Marathi claim over Bombay? OR
Are you using modern India’s division of states logic to claim Bombay as yours? Because before 1960, Bombay was a separate state.
So again, are you using the Ancient History argument or the Modern Indian History argument? Please answer this much.
The rest of your comment is rubbish. Useless, endless parrotting of the same things despite proof being thrown in your face.
You forget that people like me hire Maharashtrians as drivers & bais. Try throwing us out.
4. Lastly… read this: http://www.blogbharti.com/cuckoo/india/an-open-challenge-to-raj-thackeray/
why?
072
11:45 pm
http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/sanjayjha/652/52782/why-raj-thackeray-blew-it.html
Ketan
073
3:36 pm
Sigh..
I think it is about time that Mutiny introduce a new search criteria- Posts that end with :
Option one - ‘Maharashtrian Vs. Non Maharashtrian/North Indian/Bihari/UPite’
Option Two - Raj Thackerey/MNS
Options - Mee Mara thi / Tu bhi mara
So those who want to get ahead and bring a discussion to conclusion, or have a healthy debate can exclude such posts.
Why do we end up with the same un-directional, hate filled, mostly irrelevant issue of Raj T.
Is it too difficult to see sense? Or is it easier to claim the Son of Soil tag and move ahead justifying everything.
A recent fwd i received captures the reaction of MNS’s stand beautifully. A simple copy paste:
”
We all should support Raj Thackeray and take his initiative ahead by doing more…
1. We should teach our kids that if he is second in class, don’t study harder..
just beat up the student coming first and throw him out of the school
2. Parliament should have only Delhiites as it is located in Delhi
3. Prime-minister, president and all other leaders should only be from Delhi
4. No Hindi movie should be made in Bombay. Only Marathi.
5. At every state border, buses, trains, flights should be stopped and staff changed to local men
6. All Maharashtrians working abroad or in other states should be sent back as they are SNATCHING employment from Locals
7. Lord Shiv, Ganesha and Parvati should not be worshiped in Maharashtra as they belong to north (Himalayas)
8. Visits to Taj Mahal should be restricted to people from UP only
9. Relief for farmers in Maharashtra should not come from centre because
that is the money collected as Tax from whole of India, so why should it be given to someone in Maharashtra?
10. Let’s support Kashmiri Militants because they are right in killing and
injuring innocent people for the benefit of their state and community..
11. Let’s throw all MNCs out of Maharashtra, why should they earn from us?
We will open our own Maharashtra Microsoft, MH Pepsi and MH Marutis of the world
12. Let’s stop using cellphones, emails, TV, foreign Movies and dramas. James Bond should speak Marathi
13. We should be ready to die hungry or buy food at 10 times higher price
but should not accept imports from other states
14. We should not allow any industry to be setup in Maharashtra
because all machinery comes from outside
15. We should STOP using local trains… Trains are not manufactured
by Marathi manoos and Railway Minister is a Bihari
16. Ensure that all our children are born, grow, live and die without
ever stepping out of Maharashtra, then they will become true Marathi’s
JAI MAHARASHTRA!
”
What can i say. I agree.
Utopianthots
074
1:42 pm
Thanks for posting that email fwd-hope it gives everyone who supports this utter nonse a new perspective
Ketan
075
2:02 pm
Well i hope so too.
Lets see.
Dan van
076
8:50 pm
Raj’s grandfather came to mumbai before independence ie 1947 before that m.p state never existed. That time it was known as HOLKAR KINGDOM OF MARATHA EMPIRE and its capital was INDORE so it means that his grandpa was living in maratha holkar kingdom later moved to their main rootland maharashtra during british regime.after 1947 all kingdoms dissolved into states.btw raj belongs to marathi family so wherever he born his roots will be marathi itself. Ps- not olny kolis, the pathare prabhu, agris, chau-pachkalshs, bhandaras all these native communitys also marathi speaking original mumbai residents. So if state made on linguistic basis mumbai automat.ly joined to mh.
1conoclast
077
10:00 pm
dan van…
1. Proof of the exact year of migration please.
2. Drop the regional attitude, dude… Roots should be India!
akki
078
10:31 pm
@60 ..
Just to set records straight about the GDP, let me share some figures…
The per capita income of the following states.
Maharashtra 44634.51
Uttar Pradesh 16473.43
Andhra Pradesh 35319.90
Tamil Nadu 39462.11
West Bengal 29440.66
Karnataka 33129.83
The per capita of the biggest cities of these states :
Mumbai 96059.25
Kanpur 24212.77
Hyderabad 69277.75
Chennai 87812.85
Kolkata 66002.36
Bangalore 94376.41
The per capita income of the states after deducting the income of the largest city :
Maharashtra 30513.95
Uttar Pradesh 16311.36
Andhra Pradesh 29686.65
Tamil Nadu 26148.12
West Bengal 24600.10
Karnataka 24736.00
So that kind of proves that even without mumbai, the GDP of the state of Maharashtra is not that bad. The per capita income is 30000 rs which is much greater than UP. Now I guess your next response would be to get the GDP per capita income of Maharashtra without Pune
Another thing is that without the biggest cities of the states, the GDP of the states with population is
State Name Population in Millions GDP in crores
Maharashtra 76 231930
Uttar Pradesh 162 265531
Andhra Pradesh 76. 226242
Tamil Nadu 70 183071
West Bengal 55. 135815
Karnataka 46 114974
Now obviously the GDP of UP is slightly larger than Maharashtra, but then 2.5 times the number of people are required to earn that amount. Its like saying India is richer than Germany because the GDP is larger !
I hope with these facts, we stop the topic of discussing GDP. The fact of the matter is all states without their biggest cities suck with a per capita income of less than 30000 rupees (2500 rupees per month). But then in comparison to the all states in the country, Maharashtra without mumbai is no laggard.
Also let me make myself clear on a few points :
-The bottomline is that Mumbai is not the national capital. It hasn’t officially been notified as the financial capital of the country, and neither is it an union territory. It is the capital of state of Maharashtra.
- The majority population of the city is still marathi speaking.
- No one is forcing anyone to learn Marathi in the city. If that was the case, there would be an en masse migration out of the city…
- Every city in the country is as much a part of india as much as mumbai is. It hasn’t received any special notification to that effect.
- The business as of today with respect to Taxi Drivers/Paanwallas/Shopkeepers still work in Marathi/Hindi/Gujarati, and there is no forced order to speak with these people in Marathi only.
- Other big cities in the country like Bangalore/Chennai/Kolkata/Hyderabad also follow the same policy. There is no forced policy in those cities to speak in the native language.
- The difference between the cities mentioned above with respect to cities like Kanpur/Lucknow/Patna/Jaipur/Delhi,etc is that these cities have a native language apart from Hindi. Therefore there is no agitation in these cities with respect to their native languages.
- If you feel Marathi is being forced in the city of mumbai, I can also counter by saying that Hindi was forced upon the people of the cities in the linguistic states. You can give all the BS about it being done for national integration, but that doesn’t drive the fact that Hindi is/has always been forced upon these cities. Barring Tamil nadu, there hasn’t been any mass agitations in opposition to the language Hindi. I can still conduct my business without hindi in the country. If no one in India has problems with using hindi and learning Hindi in school, why does anyone have problems learning Marathi in school/having marathi as an option to converse in mumbai in the state of Maharashtra ? Why may I ask ?
Utopianthots
079
2:22 pm
Akki, no one is saying they have a problem in learning Marathi or spekaing in Marathi. All we are saying is that violence is not the way to deal with any problem. No Bihari or Up’ite says that he doesnt want to speak in Marathi. If there is lack of will on the part of the Government to execute something why bit up the man on the street.
In an age when a part Muslim, Black man born outside America is being made the President of a majority White country does it make sense for us to kill people of our own race on basis of language, caste, gender?
akki
080
3:22 pm
Yes violence is wrong…
But what I wanted to highlight is that there is a pro-language lobby in many cities in India , like bangalore, chennai,etc.
1conoclast
081
4:46 pm
akki…
The GDP & PCI conversations were done with between Arby & me on the Exposing the Lies forum (I think). What’s the point of discussing it now.
You wanna ignore GDP despite it being an indicator of a state’s contribution to the nation’s GDP and only concentrate on PCI, you are welcome to do so.
There are many other ways to approach this debate. The denominator can be area as well. Maharashtra has more area/land than UP. Will some simple mathematics reveal that Maharashtra’s per capita land yield is lower than UP’s? Will that mean that the landmass of UP is better utilized in the service of the nation than Maharashtra? Will that mean that large tracts of land in Maharashtra are lying underutilized? Something for you to think over.
I have already said that I am happy for Maharashtra that it is doing well even without Bombay. I also asked why then do they have a problem. If you’re not doing well & you’re frustrated, I can understand. If you’re doing well & you’re still cribbing, I don’t get it it at all!!!
The majority is Marathi speaking because of the mass migration from other districts into Maharashtra. Did you read this wonderful piece? http://www.indianexpress.com/news/whose-father-does-mumbai-belong-to/376835/0
And do you understand the meaning of “Option”? “Option” means having the freedom to choose between Marathi, German, French, Urdu etc.
That option already exists in Maharashtra. Again, why are you cribbing about something that already exists???
akki
082
6:54 pm
Yes .. In simple mathematical terms, the land mass in UP is definitely being better utilized than Maharashtra.
But then if you consider area, then in each square km there are more persons in UP than there are in Maharashtra. But are these people getting access to basic education, sanitation, health care ? But based on what you are saying, the analogy is like having 5 people living in a 1 bedroom flat with a single bathroom. vs. 3 people living in a 2 bedroom flat with 2 bathrooms. Yes mathematically the bigger house is under utilized than the smaller house, but then at what cost ? 5 people taking turns for taking a bath in a single bathroom is going to cause a lot of personal hardships, and a waste of time. In stead 3 people in the bigger house are going to get more time, and therefore more oppurtunities.If you extrapolate this example to the economies of Maharashtra and UP, you’ll understand why the standard of living in Maharashtra is better off than in UP. This is the same reason why the economy of Goa is in a much better shape than most states in India !
But the point is that GDP consists of consumption+ gross investment+government spending+(exports - imports) which are population specific. I don’t deny that UP has a bad economy, but I feel the equitable wealth distribution in UP is a problem… its relatively better in Maharashtra when compared to UP.
In that respect , states like Punjab/Haryana have a better economy that all states. Also we need to note the population below the poverty line. In that respect Maharashtra is also better off … but still not the best.
Maharashtra along with India has a long way to go as far as equitable distribution of wealth goes. For every mumbai, there is a nandurbar. For every Pune , there is a gadhchiroli… the benefits of the economic boom are not equitable.
As far as the language of Marathi is concerned, except for a couple of insignificant parties (based on vote percentage), hardly any Maharashtrian is insistent on having marathi imposed on every citizen.
As far as the reason why marathi speaking population is the majority in Mumbai, don’t get me started. Yes the migrants have contributed significantly to the economy. But the original population of mumbai for the last 1000 years atleast have been speaking marathi.
And as far as the “option” goes, I’m not cribbing at all if you speak marathi or not staying in Mumbai. I have no issues. Use the language that you are most comfortable in.
1conoclast
083
7:34 pm
akki…
No “but thens”… My point is exactly that. There can be a million but thens to this argument.
Don’t get me started on the original population argument. I’ve elaborated on that in the “exposing the lies” post. No one can claim to be original population anywhere. Least of all in Bombay.
I don’t get this state/regional pride thing at all…
The boundaries were meant for administrative purposes, not to divide India like this!
akki
084
8:00 pm
No ones dividing anything.
But I don’t see why you have a problem if marathi is being used as one of mediums of communication in Bombay ? Its as simple as that.
Just answer me this simple question. Why is hindi not being compulsorily taught in Tamil Nadu ? If its not regional pride, then what is it ? Don’t unfairly criticise just Maharashtra and its politician in dealing with dividing the country. I think you need to understand that the problem is present everywhere in the country. I understand that you have a problem with the regional/state pride thing, but then treat it as national problem, and not specific problem to the state of Maharashtra alone. I have a problem with that.
akki
085
9:00 pm
You can read more about the anti-hindi agitation on this link :
In the article, it is noted that R.V. Dhulekar said the following statement :
“People who do not know Hindustani have no right to stay in India. People who are present in the House to fashion a constitution for India and do not know Hindustani are not worthy to be members of this assembly. They had better leave”
Do you think thats the right statement to make ?
Also note that R.V. Dhulekar although from Jhansi was a marathi speaking person.
1conoclast
086
4:44 pm
akki…
How many times will I have to tell you that I don’t have a problem with Marathi being used by those who want to use it.
I have a problem with me being expected to.
I have a problem with the deliberate Marathization of Bombay.
I told you that I don’t want to be unfair to Maharashtra at all. TN too is a case of regional pride over national pride. It’s a pity for everyone who has faith in the Indian Union of States. I have a problem with anyone who puts region/state/language/religion/caste/etc. over country. And I don’t intend to blame only Maharashtra. But right now the problem is happening here, so the focus is here.
Dhulekar too had a case of misplaced nationalist/linguistic pride. It’s like someone saying that if you can’t speak English you don’t deserve to be living in a Metropolis.
akki
087
5:26 pm
Alright then .. its settled….
I really don’t care if you want to speak marathi or not in Mumbai .. And I don’t agree that there a deliberate marathization of Mumbai..
1conoclast
088
12:05 pm
Thanks akki. Let’s agree to disagree.
I would very much like you to at least read the IE link I presented in 082.
Thanks for the conversation. Hope to see you around.
Animesh
089
9:38 pm
@sanjukta: I finally came across the source of the 49-O thing. Here it is.
british boxing
090
4:18 am
hi nice site some great post interesting read with very useful information will visit again