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Oct172008
India Inc. loses again: Jet Airways vs Employees
On 15th Oct, Jet Airways took a decision to retrench about 1900 employees (800 had already been asked to leave with another 1100 on the line). Obviously the decision was not personal and was taken to help the company battle the profitability and sustenance woes.
With all the media hype and popular delusions about the upcoming recession and job losses, the entire world went into a frenzy. From news channels to blogs to twitter to phone calls to SMSes, everyone had opinions. Opinions on how to save jobs to finding new ones to saving money in case you are retrenched by your company.
Employees obviously protested, spoke to political parties, Mr. Thackery even asked Jet to reconsider and company was held to ransom by MNS, CITU, Aviation Industry Employees Union and I dont know who all for this retrenchment.
I expected the company to stay confident and justify the move. Surprisingly, they did not. Infact, Jet Airways gave up and called back all the sacked employees. People touted this as the victory of morality, common mans’ win, employees rights and other such things. I beg to differ. In my humble opinion, India Inc lost again. A company was yet again held to ransom and was made to take a decision that does not do any shareholder any good. If I was a Jet Airways shareholder, I would have asked them how could they roll back retrenchment. How could they not work towards enhancing the shareholder value? How could they take decisions that were not in favor of the business.
Naresh Goel said that he was unaware of the decision. Makes me wonder what kind of management runs the company that forgets to update the Chairman about such a big decision. And was Mr. Goel deaf and dumb to have not heard all the news reports and noises? Mr. Goel clearly separated himself from the top management of the company and put the entire blame on them.
Obviously sacked employees would cry. There would be heart burns. Political parties would go any length to get free publicity and aligning themselves with causes. Politicians would have opinions. However, capitalist need to be firm and confident. A business owner needs to show confidence in the decisions made by him and his company. I find it absolutely ridiculous to first let go these many employees and then blame everything on the top management. I should ideally be writing this post criticizing media and politicians but with one move, Mr. Goel has lost all respect what-so-ever I had for him.
With the recent controversy around Tata and its Nano project, this comes as yet another rude shock to the business fraternity. We are clearly sending out signals that conducting business in India is getting more and more difficult. I do not want to pump in hard work and time and effort to create a company and then see it being forced to take decisions that are irrational and populist in nature. As an entrepreneur, I am skeptic. And I am scared to even think about creating businesses.
I ask why. India asks Why.
The views expressed in this post are those of the writer and are not necessarily endorsed by Mutiny.in
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Ketan
001
12:55 pm
You echoed my sentiments s4ur4bh.
What was all this ruckus about? Simply PR?
Jet and Kingfisher Airlines owe the oil companies hundreds of crores! And why was the Govt. mum till now? why use Taxpayers monies to bail out these two? Was Mallya sleeping when he ordered those 10 extra jets? Was he not aware that he his airline had not even broken even?
Goyal has been in this business far longer than Mallya, but he too bent down to the pressure. What happens to 1500 crs savings which was touted?
Now, if any other company plans to downsize, this event will be touted as an example, and companies will never be able to operate in the same manner again!
noone
002
12:58 pm
what’s India Inc? A faceless, heartless entity? People comes first. Economic or social structures exist to serve majority of the people. If not, i’ts fall does not deserve any sympathy.
noone
003
1:08 pm
Jet and Kingfisher are perfect example of crony capitalism. In any other country they should have fined or jailed for such cartelization. Jet owes about 1200 Cr. and Kingfisher about 900 Cr from public sector oil companies. Why activities of two private commercial enterprises should be subsidized? Or this is same thing as most of the SEZ are subsidized by government by means of taking over the land first and then hand it over to the industrialist.
velaboy
004
1:50 pm
This is a bad for business and employment both. It is a LOSE-LOSE situation.
Companies will be loath to hire anyone, thereby lakhs of jobs will no longer be created.
Companies would shy away from setting up in India.
If Employees can resign and go anytime citing better opportunities, why can’t employer ask a employee to leave citing bad economic conditions?
For readers to chew on:
Jet has defaulted on payment for ATF Fuel in the last week. What does it say about its condition?
noone
005
2:07 pm
1. Capital has to be invested to make profit. So what ever is the condition Business would be there.
2. Why there is no move to reduce salaries at the top, reduce their commission and parks? Or it is up to the lesser mortals who should do the sacrifice.
KSR
006
2:41 pm
noone was one of the guys taken back, I guess.
Anyways, I think it is quite clear that Goyal’s story is dumb and that he has been arm twisted behind-the-scenes to take this decision. Plus, Goyal could not care less for Jet is soon going to be Red. By early next year. So he will get a few crores less. Does not matter to him. Retrenchment is inevitable. If there is no business, how do you expect to keep the job? High time Indians lerant to live in reality; realize your hard luck and move on. Yes - easily said than done; but that’s life people. There are no real bailouts. Never!
Swati
007
2:53 pm
Bubbles burst. They are supposed to.
Suddenly positions offering 4 figure salaries began to offer 5 figure ones and more. 30 year olds own penthouses in swank areas and 60 +year olds are unable to live on bank interests because of the inflation. Property costs have gone up, pensions remain the same. A 70 year old has to pay today’s rates for a medical check up while his chq from his ex-employers states the same measley figure it did more than a decade ago . A movie ticket in a decent cineplex is 200 bucks…pop corn and a coke combo - 75 bucks. Both spouses work and struggle to be able to afford the present. Everyone’s getting on highspeed treadmills that wont/mustn’t/can’t stop.
Whatever happened to real joys?
Bubbles burst.
1conoclast
008
3:41 pm
s4ur4bh & others…
It may help to take a look at the comments on this one:
http://mutiny.in/2008/10/16/india-shining-generation-wakes-up-to-layoffs/
noone,
Bang on in comment # 005!
1conoclast
009
3:42 pm
s4ur4bh & others…
It may help to take a look at the comments on this one:
(http://mutiny.in/2008/10/16/india-shining-generation-wakes-up-to-layoffs/)
noone,
Bang on in comment # 005!
almostinfamous
010
3:57 pm
actually, oil prices have fallen by nearly (and trending towards more than) half recently(http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081016/bs_afp/commoditiesenergyoilprice_081016155601). aviation fuel prices will probably come down pretty fast now too. I think that this little piece of news probably has something to do with the re-hiring etc. Why these prices went so high is a completely different and entirely shady can of worms too, but let us stay on topic.
tell that to AIG insurance, several American banks, GM/Ford and several american airlines. The only reason there are no bailouts for ordinary people is that often times they have not been vocal about it, having been conditioned into wage slavery. i am not necessarily calling for a proletarian revolt, but activism in the working class is always a heartening sign.
Abhilash Pillai
011
3:58 pm
A company recruits new hands like crazy. It demands security deposit from each of them. Then suddenly they realize they made a mistake to hire so many of them. So, what do they do? An sms, a phone call and a few words of sympathy.
This is what author says commendable and trail-blazer for India inc. Unbridled capitalism seems to be his mantra.
Today, i feel proud to be Indian because a common man’s voice is not unheard in this country.
noone
012
4:47 pm
As the issue of AIG has come up, I would paste a news item published yesterday by NY Times.
“New York’s attorney general demanded on Wednesday that the American International Group recover bonuses and other payments from its former executives, lest he take formal action against the insurer.
Recently bailed out by the federal government, A.I.G. is afloat only because of billions of dollars in government loans. With more and more taxpayer money committed, Congress and others have expressed outrage over high pay in general at financial firms and in particular at some of the perks that have come to light at A.I.G.
The attorney general, Andrew M. Cuomo, made his demand in a letter to A.I.G.’s board, citing “unwarranted and outrageous expenditures” by the company as contrary to New York law. The letter, which described a lavish golf outing and an overseas hunting trip that cost nearly $100,000, follows other recent disclosures of excess by corporate America.”
Might be scary for India Inc.
almostinfamous
013
5:30 pm
BTW, when the business/news channels et. al, say ’shareholder’ they do not mean the people of the middle to upper-middle class who own a dozen or a couple of hundred shares of common stock. they mean the shareholders who have significant equity holdings(usually at least 1% of the company’s outstanding equity) in preferred stock and bonds who have first claims to the company assets if and when it goes under. secondly, why the hell should the fired workers care about the shareholders? is their salary increasing because of the company’s improved performance? even if it is, what is the scale of their pay rise to the CEO’s pay rise? And how is a company going to provide a good service or product, if their first duty is towards their SHAREHOLDERS and not their CUSTOMERS? This is the sort of attitude that make CEOs spend lots of money engaging in stock buybacks to inflate their stock value so that they get larger bonuses instead of spending the money on actual development either of technology or HR that will actually improve on the fundamentals of the company.
Swati
014
5:50 pm
Sorry, wrong post wrong thread last time.
1conoclast
015
6:58 pm
noone, almostinfamous,
APPLAUSE!!! Very pertinent & well made points!
contentious
016
9:17 pm
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/AI_mulls_temporaray_layoff_of_15000_staff_for_upto_5_yrs/articleshow/3602424.cms
What is the the erudite take on this proposed “creative way of shedding flab”.
almostinfamous
017
10:02 am
i think it’s interesting that they are so afraid of the backlash from unions that they are in effect offering a 3-5 years of sabbatical to anyone who wants to take it. governments end up bailing out airlines anyway, so this is probably a cost-effective measure.
m0j0
018
7:49 pm
Noone - Social structures exist to support people. Economic structure exists to support society.
1. Capital has to be invested to make profit. So what ever is the condition Business would be there.
I hope you go ahead and open a business if all is oh-so-simple!!! I agree partially to your second point though, but a person (executive or not) has to be paid enough to retain them.
AlmostInfamous – True that the global oil prices are back to their summer 2007 levels, but that it no way means that it is going to stay there. Just look at the volatility over last 14 months. Business decisions are not based upon that. Moreover Industries don’t buy fuel at a petrol pump every day. All these firms are involved in Oil derivatives market and right now are suffering extensive MTM losses there. If the prices stay at these levels, it will definitely be passed onto consumers and benefit the company a little later in time.
Moreover talking about bailouts for AIG, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Fortis, Northern Rock, B&B, etc – governments don’t do it because they love these companies. They do it to protect the common man. Thankfully government’s mandate is to see a little further than tomorrow. If AIG was allowed to fail, a lot of people would have had lost their savings & pensions, and GDP drop of 10-20% was very much on the cards (multiply that by a small factor for India). Thankfully, because of the recent capital injections into the global financial sector, this will be avoided though it will still take at least a year to get out of the present recessionary pressures (look at what happened in Scandinavia in 1991)
Why we need to care about Shareholders – Because they keep the company running, and yes, shareholders are ordinary shareholders because it is they who vote at AGMs. Workers are important but a bunch of willing workers cannot keep a company running if there are no capital infusions. Workers, environment, society are stakeholders, and they should be managed by a fair company, but frankly a company cannot survive by focusing only on stakeholders and shunning shareholders. IF you believe that go and talk to people (people like you and me) who are selling Jet shares in a frenzy now, or put your money where your mouth is and go buy some Jet shares yourself.
Having a union is healthy, but having unchecked union is a suicide (look at Bengal)
My take on Jet – firing and re-hiring doesn’t really talk much about the management of the company. There might have been political arm-twisting but also I suspect the gov’t has sweetened the deal b/w oil companies and Jet. The way they fired people was wrong, as every corporate house should be prepared for slump in business cycle. They should have used their pool of redundancy costs and should have served notice period. It seems Jet tried to avoid these costs. Thus being able to let people go is a core flexibility that Indian company needs to stay competitive, but has to be done in a fair manner.
(Inside story – KLM is looking to loose over a thousand people, who had been working at the firm for over 10-15 years. But they are already contacting HR firms to counsel these employees if the move does come about)
almostinfamous
019
8:45 pm
If they(US Govt) really wanted to protect ‘the common man’, they would probably implement stricter controls forcing the banks to resume interbank lending which would actually ease the credit crisis instead of letting them hoard the cash. What they have done in effect, is to protect the banks probably at the ultimate cost of ‘the common man’.
There are plenty of tough times ahead with the US showing no signs of pulling out of a recession now or in the near future. now would be a great time to indulge in some good old-fashioned keynesianism and drop the neoliberal mantras of deregulation and privatization till either capitalists sort their shit out or a new system is implemented.
BTW I am not an investor, i do not trade on the Stock Market mainly because i do not have cash, but also because I do not trust it one single bit. I am just a student who likes to waste time on the internet and pick up information about the world around me. At any rate, the Stock Market, which is not a particularly sane place anyway, is decidedly bad for your health(physical, mental or monetary) when people are in a frenzy. to quote many investors’ guru Warren Buffet: when the people are fearful, be greedy and when the people are greedy, be fearful
Even if i was an investor, i would be stuffing my cash in my nearest government-run bank right now to ensure personal liquidity.
Swagata
020
11:41 pm
How can you say India Inc failed?
It is precisely what makes India a great country to live and work in. That capital and profit are not the only thing that matters here. We value peoples lives. It is great that such companies can be forced to take responsibility of their lower level employees. Corporate Downsizing is an ill that destroys a lot of lives and dreams. India need not be like US, as US itself has failed, we better learn from their mistake and refrain from aping them in the “Capitalist” way of life.
1conoclast
021
7:44 pm
Anyone saw “We the People” on NDTV debating this yesterday?
m0j0
022
8:12 am
@Almost -
I was dallying replying to you cause it just felt like too much of an effort to explain to a quack why witchcraft does not cure cancer.
You are mixing up too many things. I am not sure why you mentioned Keynesian! Probably to sound intelligent!
In layman’s language, Keynes came to the conclusion that people are stupid (rightly so, IMHO) and that they are governed by what he himself called “animal spirits” or herd instinct. He was of the opinion that if an economy falls into recession, it will be very difficult to get out of it because of people protesting against wage cuts and job losses. [You could have been his case study, had he been alive! :-p]
To save the economy from this herd he proposed a steady monetary and fiscal policy, which US Fed, British BoE and Indian RBI have been doing all along (in its evolved form obviously). He never talked about financial market regulations.
After the great depression in 1930s US started following the Keynesian Rule, which basically meant that Government spent a lot of money to keep the demand high and recession away. Companies produce more -> People get paid more -> Everybody’s happy. Think of it as Bush Jr. waging his war against terrorism and inadvertently (or not) funding US growth by spending trillions in defense contracts. US formally moved away from Keynesian around the Oil shock of early 1970s when they realized that it couldn’t be done forever. You will be happy to know that yesterday British Chancellor (the same guy who initiated the int’l equity injections into banks) proposed moving to Keynesian again. I just hope that if they choose to increase their spending then they choose some way other than waging wars!
I do agree with you that increased Financial Regulation is needed, and that is what all the regulators have been trying to do anyways, especially so after the crisis started. I personally believe less in free-markets because a person cannot be expecting financial markets to price things effectively while looking at ways to make a profit on them (something like Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle (11th grade physics – CBSE) applied to financial markets).
Lastly, credit crisis did not start because Investment Banks suddenly turned into Uncle Scrooge, wanting to swim in a silo full of cash. It was simply because Investors (people who manage cash of people like you and me) suddenly had cold feet around last summer after they started suffering losses on US mortgages. In a typical herd mentality they started selling everything, causing the prices to melt, and banks started suffering huge Mark-To-Market losses. They could not lend to each other because they didn’t know how much losses the other banks are suffering and were still trying to assess their own.
Because since last month there are no more “pure” investment banks left in the world (i.e. USA), the streets have been paved for increased regulation that they can be subjected to. Moreover because of the recent partial nationalization of American and European banks, they are more willing to lend to each other and corporates because they have a cash cushion now. So now we are hopefully nearing the end of financial credit crisis but will be left with a slump in industry like any business cycle.
The bailouts that you think are the ultimate cost that a taxpayer has to pay, will help to prop up the industry (not only banks) by giving them access to financing, and thus save a lot many jobs of “common-man” and their houses. If history and present bank stock prices are any cue, then like Scandinavia (1990s) and Japan (2000s) these governments should eventually be able to sell their shares for a huge profit for the taxpayer!!
PS1: Given your financial and economic knowledge, for your own sake, I am glad you don’t invest.
PS2: I apologize if I came across as scathing, that’s not my intention. I have tried to be as factual as possible and have hopefully clarified wherever I have expressed my personal opinions.
PS3: Why I wrote this “Present Crisis explained for Dummies” at 3AM with my work starting in 4 hours – In the hope that we Indians become a little more responsible while discussing issues that concern the entire nation. Its fine to accept at times that one doesn’t know everything, and if it happens too often then to soothe our ego by going on the street and pointing a tourist in the wrong direction!!! Expressing opinions is just fine but not in the garb of half-truths.
m0j0
023
8:13 am
As far as job security is concerned. We should be a little more willing to learn from the world we live in than abominating every “Judeo-Christian” concept (I came across this term a few days back on Mutiny) and trying to re-invent the wheel. France is supposed to be amongst the leading socialist countries where Striking is a national hobby. An average French joins a company after college and stays there as long as the company stays afloat. The job security in France is a lot more than that in UK, which is 2 hours away by train. UK was able to tone down its socialist streak under Thatcher. The result – Unemployment Rate in UK is around 5% while in France it is around 10%. France has been trying to emulate the UK financial system, but is held back only because of the inertia of its public who have become only too used to freebies. The French as a nation does realize that its need to change and have even elected Sarkozy, who promised to do it no matter what. But everytime the poor guy tries to change any employment law or reform the public services, people who will get affected take to the streets - protesting. As has always happened in France – the gov’t backs down. The result - bulk of French who are any good have left France and work in UK (London is the 4th largest French city).
People around the world don’t like to change. But they need to realize that more liquid a job market is, easier it is to get re-hired after being fired, by developing new skills. (imagine trying to save all the type writers after computer came along). Most of the French small business owners that I know agree that if the rules are relaxed they would hire more people.
In 2005, French introduced a bill – CPE, which would have allowed firms to hire 24 to 26 year olds and fire them if they were not good enough. The idea was to entice firms to hire more people. Needless to say, everybody protested, and the person who tabled the bill lost his political career. Most of the people protesting were high school students or local politicians and not even the ones who would be directly affected. The unemployment rate of 24-26 yr olds stays in its late teens still.
IMO, we all should look a little further ahead than tomorrow. Being made redundant is never pretty (I work in int’l financial markets and was amongst 28,000 who went through this experience over last few months, but I was able to pick new skills and get rehired in another business within the industry). We should make sure that the process is transparent and fair, rather than resisting it tooth and nail.
Or rather than being bedroom thinkers, go ask your local dhaba owner how many helping hands would he hire, if had to pay everyone a years salary before being able to let them go when business goes bad.
1conoclast
024
3:33 pm
m0j0,
Very interesting reads both, though you laid into almostinfamous a little like I lay into right-wingers. Unfair on both our parts I think…
Anyway… Can you give me some links to substantiate what you’ve stated? Theories & figures? It’s always a good idea to link.
You have a blog?
contentious
025
11:08 pm
m0j0,
Super packed in your 2 comments….facts/concepts/homily/opinions…..thank you and thank you almostinfamous for bringing it on . You are certainly not a person of a few words!
A little further reading is now required (using some key words in your comments)
p.s.: HUP and YOUR statement on financial markets….please explain?or are u pointing to risk models and markets
almostinfamous
026
12:16 am
@ m0j0, finally a liberal capitalist!! cheerio to you
let me start in the middle and ramble on a bit from here and there, because i am kind of ulta-pulta like that:
no, they did not suddenly turn into that, because it was ever thus. the ‘Quants’ helped them ‘get there’ better, faster, stronger and more importantly, more opaquely than before.
actually, if i really wanted to sound intelligent i’d be quoting Capital Vol. 1 and the Theories of Value etc. by Karl Marx As far as I understand Keynes, and i may very well be mistaken because i am prejudiced against capitalism in general, the major thrust of his policies was increasing demand through increased employment which would help stimulate private production and thus mitigate recession instead of the government helping only the capitalists (companies in your parlance?).
from wiki
As that article illustrates, the US Govt was never that fond of Keynes, or anything that was or is against it’s own interests(which are not necessarily the interests of it’s people). What happened in the 70s along with the oil shock was the elimination of gold-backed fixed currency rates - basically a collapse of the Bretton Woods agreement linked above- and therefore the emergence of floating currency rates and further, a rather changed monetary policy on the part of the US Federal Reserve.
more later, i am still hungover!
@1conoclast: m0j0 can ‘lay into me’ all he/she likes, i am game!
almostinfamous
027
12:26 am
Some Experts disagree. off to bed now, please dont take your responsibility so seriously.
to which i respond (in other peoples’ words as usual)
we are not going to change anything except our own sleep patterns by discussing on this blog late in the night. save your energies, m0j0. stay calm and cool and not like this dude.
almostinfamous
028
10:04 am
i guess my comments are held up in moderation.. admins, please help!
1conoclast
029
1:30 pm
Q: What’s the difference between a crow & an investment banker?
A: A crow can still make a deposit on a Ferrari.
Apart from the joke, this also is a telling comment on the evils of out & out consumerism.
m0j0, your take?
m0j0
030
3:11 am
@1conoclast
I would have provided links had I been recycling what I read on another website. What I mentioned was mostly through my reading, paid financial information providers & personal experience. I did google some stuff for you though -
Unemployment data - Its a ppt that I found online. Slide 7 and 18 show what I mentioned above. Notice the drop in UK figures since mid 1980s.
UK Chancellor proposing move to Keynesian -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7682887.stm
This also talks about the main reason why Keynes was supplanted by Monetarism in late 1960s, which was that Milton Friedman disagreed with Keynes.
French employment scenario - My personal experience from when I was living in Paris, and long painful discussions with my French mates. Here’ s a link about CPE protests though -
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/feb2006/fran-f10.shtml
@Contentious
My view on Financial Markets is based upon this
book by George Soros (Investment Guru, credited by some to have caused the South East Asian Crisis & meltdown of British Pound in 1992). I found this Wiki entry to be a good summary of his main idea in the book. Caveat - I find his theory “interesting”, especially given the examples he quotes in his book to support his views. His theory of reflexivity does not enjoy academic support though.
@almost
Its just “misquoting” of half-understood concepts (be it economics or religious scriptures) on public forums to support one’s view that irks me.
I don’t expect you to conform to my views. I merely expressed my opinion and its basis (and a few facts). I actually celebrate substantiated diversity of opinions and interpretations; and like to debate with people who know what they are talking about & who don’t try to “impose” their “Only True Way” of thinking. IMHO confrontational debating without substance is juvenile.
I am definitely “Not-Communist” (I think Capitalism as a concept didn’t exist before Marx and is too broad to adequately classify anybody). My basic belief is that, to progress, a society should encourage people to create and do new things, rather than impede them.
Karl Marx was a great thinker with undeniable contribution to social thinking. His thinking made sense of the social conditions of 1850s. But I believe that his entire work is based on his main premise of surplus value theory of profit (which says that labour power is the ONLY commodity that can produce more than its worth, i.e. companies can only make profit by exploiting workers). This basic assumption is very debatable and IMO wrong. I believe in some other things that he said, but most importantly, IMO it is also very difficult to implement his ideas of wealth sharing w/o the system getting suppressive. I know that his book – “Capital” is a-la-mode again these days.
Its good to question what you read and hear, but only if you are open minded about the answers you receive.
Never marry any one school of thought in its totality. Sleeping around is fun and makes sure you get the best out of them all. There is always something wrong with everything. Every philosophy (including Economics) is based upon certain premises that change (are refined or discarded) with historical observations.
Read this book – “The House of Morgan” by Ron Chernow, if you are really interested in understanding international financial environment since 1850s when US was an emerging economy to mid 1980s.
I, very humbly, will request you to let me humor my views on economics & socialism.
m0j0
031
3:36 am
@1conoclast
Q: What’s the difference between a crow & an investment banker?
A: A crow can still make a deposit on a Ferrari.
My take – its hilarious ☺
Here are some more that I also got in my inbox a few days back. -
* How do you define optimism? A banker who irons five shirts on a Sunday.
* “It’s worse than a divorce. I’ve lost half my net worth and I still have a wife.”
* What’s the difference between an investment banker and a large pizza? The pizza can feed a family of four.
* An elderly lady receives an email from the son of a deceased African general, asking to transfer millions of pounds into her account for a 20 per cent cut. All the son needs is her sort code and account number. She emails back the details. A couple of minutes later she receives an email back from the general’s son: “icesave? What is this, some sort of scam?”
* Talked to my bank manager the other day and he said he was going to concentrate on the big issues from now on. He sold me one outside Boots yesterday!
* Why didn’t the little boy get any pocket money? ‘Cos his mum’s gone to Iceland.
* If you had purchased $1,000 of Nortel stock a year ago, it would now be worth $49. With Enron, you would have $16.50 left of the original $1,000. With WorldCom, you would have less than $5 left. if you had bought $1,000 of Delta Airlines stock you’d have $49 left. With United Airlines, you would have nothing left. But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drank it and then turned in the cans for recycling, you would have $214. The best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle. it is called the 401-Keg Plan.
There is another one –
Q: What’s the capital of Iceland
A: Rs. 3.50
almostinfamous
032
8:30 am
that’s a good one. listen, i dont think Marx was a prophet or that his ideas directly translate to what we have today, and no honest Marxist would say that we can apply ‘Capital’ directly. But Marx was more a philosopher than an economist. His way of looking at things is more important than what he actually proposed, which is that ultimately Capitalism is more than just an economic system, it is a social order that works mostly for the benefit of Capitalists(and Imperialists) themselves. And by my own observations, that has worked out to be true so far.
about sleeping around - i am an anarchist anyway, i have no problems with it.
almostinfamous
033
9:07 am
BTW, i would like to make my own suggestion - ‘The Nature and Logic of Capitalism‘ by Robert L Heilbroner. It’s also a philosophical book, not an economic one but as you are a fan of ’sleeping around’ you might find the hybridization of Marx & Smith interesting…
contentious
034
9:26 am
Thanks m0j0 for the link, skimmed v v quickly (am in a rush) thru reflexivity. Sure is parallel universe of HUP. Very interesting!
And so is the ongoing discussion.
1conoclast
035
12:32 pm
m0j0,
THAT has always been my stance. I’m not for out & out capitalism that some on this thread seem to be for. Nor for out & out socialism that France (apparently) has been for. Nor for out & out communism (that Cuba has demonstrated is workable).
A blend is what I recommend. So a socialist heart of a capitalist country is what I envision India as. Anyone for Narayan Murthy as FM/PM?
Your thoughts?
Conti… HUP? Please educate this economics illiterate.
almostinfamous
036
2:07 pm
HUP - Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. no economics necessary
almostinfamous
037
3:28 pm
btw, m0jo:
then you should just quit the internet man. you’re in for a LOT of irking.
less facetiously, a ‘liquid’ job market would enable the capitalists, including the small-time business owners you refer to anecdotally to pressurize their existing employees to work longer hours, take on more duties for no increase in wages or benefits. This already happens with the Dhaba owner, where his labour market is extremely ‘liquid’ and he can hire some street kid or the other who is willing to take abuse by firing someone who can either organize co-workers for better working conditions or hit back by himself(like an Amitabh Bachchan movie from the late 70s). He can also pay less to the street kids and get away with it, unless he crosses some cop.
There is a much simpler way around this, and that is to actually reduce the standard working time of a single employee, but nobody seems interested in that at all.
and yet another book that i would recommend(and it’s free though i recommend a donation) Wall Street by Doug Henwood
1conoclast
038
4:17 pm
almostinfamous,
Well made point. That is the employment scenario that we’re more used to seeing actually than the one m0j0 was saying could happen in a liquid market.
m0j0, your take?