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Oct072008
Shame on you Ratan Tata
I wonder what kind of a world Ratan Tata lives in. Maybe it’s a very busy world with a very different list of priorities, but if he spent some time on the blogosphere, he would’ve known what a section of the populace thinks about various things (and in this particular case, Gujarat), and he would have come across this idea expressed by Dr. Anjan Ray. Anjan says:
To my mind, there is only one way to deal with State-sponsored terrorism. And that is a groundswell of economic boycott activity.
When the rule of the law morphs with willing connivance of the political leadership into the rule of the jungle, it is funded by government and party cadre revenues. These, in turn, come from economic acitivity within the State in large measure…
Anjan elaborated in a separate email to me saying:
A boycott is a time-tested form of protest against the actions of a state (as represented by its “management” or “government”). Think about the Swadeshi movement, for instance - its participants chose not to buy British goods not only as a positive endorsement to India’s handloom industry, but also an economic action that disrupted the British textiles supply-demand curve. Were those factories not staffed by people like the employees that you refer to, or run by businessment whose intention was anything other than to make an honest living - supported by a nation-state that was quietly pursuing its agenda of repression against India? Did the owners of those factories stand up and pressurize the British monarchy to give India its freedom - or did the collective weight of the Indian protests in both non-violent and militant expression drive the British out?
We all make choices. Arvind Mills and the other companies that chose to be where they are made theirs. It is my belief that a widespread boycott will compel them to rethink this - and to put pressure on the state leadership to at least shift away from the politics of hate if they are to retain their economic position…
…However, what if development is a means of cementing power, and the same power is then misused again to run pogroms?
Can we not have development (admirable) without communal politics (despicable)?
Would you not stand up for an option that might move us in that direction?
Apart from his comment on the Citizens for Peace Blog, I too had linked to Anjan’s (what I consider brilliant) suggestion on my blog. Had Mr. Tata spent some time on the Indian blogosphere, he would’ve known the views of one group on both Bengal & Gujarat.
That he chose to invest in our rogue states, suggests that his list of priorities is different. I am personally disappointed, but apparently I shouldn’t be. For the following reasons:
In an earlier post, I had written about the Indigo:
In trying to make an affordable vehicle, the Tatas cut cost on almost every component: the interiors, the door hinges, the wiper jets (need replacing every 6 months!), the tyre size!!! The actual tyre is one size smaller than the ideal size (as informed by a gentleman in the tyre industry for over 25 years). This apparently saves them Rs. 500/- per tyre. That’s Rs. 2500/- per vehicle. For a car that’s sold 1 Lakh units, that amounts to a saving of Rs. 25,00,00,000/-! That also amounts to me driving on less that perfect tyres!
It is this aspect of business that I find disappointing.
It should’ve been clear at this point that the new TATA group under Ratan Tata is very different from the one we grew up respecting for it’s attitude towards corporate social responsibility.
I should’ve learnt at that point, but I didn’t want to base my opinion only on one instance.
Additionally, my friend, the Indian Home Maker, pointed out in response to a post on my blog, the Tata’s attitude to the plight of the Olive Ridley turtles.
So, while my faith in Tata products had been dwindling for some time, my faith in the group, their legacy, what they stood for, had remained.
But with this one move, Ratan Tata has totally shattered that! And brought disgrace to the Tata name.
To modi’s misled supporters & those who feel this rather dubious Gujarati pride, the Nano project is a cause for celebration. But there is another India, other states, another set of people who think differently. To them sanctions against Apartheid ridden South Africa made sense. To them Gandhiji’s boycott funda makes sense. To them this is not cause for celebration.
To them, Mr. Tata has just proved that business comes above everything else, that money matters more than anything else, that the alleged blood on modi’s hands doesn’t matter to him (it would’ve to his predecessors), that in his chase for the glory of the Tata group, he has shamed the India that we (& our forefathers & his!) have been fighting to build!
To me & to others like me, he will be remembered not as the man who revolutionized (read debased) India’s car market, not as the man who salvaged the fortunes of the Tata group, but as the man who sold India’s soul for the sake of his business.
Unless Mr. Tata has thought up a brilliant strategy of going into areas with a history of trouble, shifting their focus to economics, running CSR & communal harmony programmes, and in the process dismantling the pogrom machinery that exists in those states. If not, he is only strengthening the hands of India’s neo-nazis, who will use the money to engineer more rioting in the future.
Your comments Mr. Tata?
The views expressed in this post are those of the writer and are not necessarily endorsed by Mutiny.in
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Kalind
001
8:53 pm
How true! Hope Mr. Tata and his cronies read this and reflect on it.
Wingless Flight
002
8:57 pm
Oozing positive energy here..good going I-con.
arZan
003
9:32 pm
1conoclast what weed have you been smokign before you typed this ?
Tata moved out of Singur on principle. If the safety of his employees was put at risk, there was no way he was staying there. This move meant the loss of hundreds of crores already invested by Tatas and other vendors.
To forfeit that investment and walk away needs balls. Especially in today’s business and economy.
I am no fan of Modi or his politics of hatred and genocide. However Gujarat state is bigger than one person. And honestly as much as I despise Modi, I have to say that Gujarat has progressed fantastically as a state in both agriculture and industry.
For Tata to base his whole ideology on the basis of one man and not the states and the people would be foolish. From your reasoning we all should not have any gujarati friends or neighbors because one of them…Modi committed human rights violations.
I am surprised that the Mutiny would publish such a negative article as its first one on the topic.
arZan
004
9:34 pm
Sorry for the typos above. Apparently my keyboard is angry with me today.
Balaji
005
10:15 pm
Give him a break mate!!! he did what he has to do and Modi is doing what he needs to do to have Tata’s nano in gujarat. Tata will have to wait another generation if needs to have the plant in Singur.
At Cheruti
006
10:37 pm
Is Gujarat really bigger than it’s Chief Minister? Was Germany bigger than Hitler or the USSR bigger than Hitler? Not really. These people reflected the views of their societies to a degree enough to gain and keep power.
West Bengal in the end wasn’t much bigger than it’s politicians and Gujarat isn’t either.
arZan
007
10:42 pm
Your examples are skewed. Gujarat is one state of the Union. Germany and USSR were countries, with no controlling authority above them. Gujarat still answers to New Delhi and is not so independent as Germany and USSR.
Rational examples would work better than fear-mongering as is the case here by throwing big catch phrases like Nazi, Hitler, Communist etc.
@1con
008
11:06 pm
you just proved what kind of a one track mind you are, just like the modis and sanghies u hate. they get to violence on the streen, u go about writing gibberish and spreading hatred online.
who asked you to put him above a business man? he is not out to do social justice. he was a business man, he will be one. expecting him to stay in bengal is stupid, and it serves the fools in bengal rite. they lost what gujarat has now gained. they learnt their lessons.
and i wonder how u can be so partial! gujarat cannot have a plant which bengal can just cos modi is the CM? what kind of irrational bullsh*t is that???!!!! there are ppl who hate modi like you too in gujarat, but this plant might just do some goos to them by providing jobs.
not only has this post strengthen ur image as a Saffrom Brigade-hater than a minority or peace-lover, but also thown light on the mutiny edit team, which allowed such nonsense to be published.
1con, if u really want peace, you cant achieve it thro spreading hatred abt someone, anyone, let alone a man who wants to make money by being a part of the system. dont quote gandhi and tell us u believe in gandhi, u r the same as the bas*tards who go around burning churches. u wud do the same to th ppl u hate if u were given a chance.
insomuch
009
11:12 pm
I couldnt find a sicker site than this and losers who are commenting here. May you all be hanged and reborn as pigs.
@1con
010
11:12 pm
and, if it matters, consider the humble readers’ request and take back this post.
There was a time when I spread the word about mutiny in my circle profusely, I think its time i stop doing it. Not like it ll matter to Mutiny, chacko ll say “u start a site like mutiny and we ll see which runs more…”…. but atleast i will have some integrity, than being a part of spreading hatred.
Mutiny has changed, or the real faces of a few authors on mutiny has emerged.
Haaha
011
11:19 pm
Noticed this irony!
This post is full of Tata-hatred, but, the ad above this post is for Tata AIG Insurance….LOL!
See, how all you guys can do it RANT abt him online, while, even as you uselessly do so, u r helping his business. Not only that, YOU NEED his business to survive. Why dont you take ads off the site if ur motives are pure?
Such hypocrites! Hahahah!
contentious
012
11:34 pm
Haaha, what a blooper!!!
Mutiny edit team, WAKE UP!!!
sagarone
013
11:59 pm
Icon, sometimes I wonder if your anger is just aimed at Gujarat and Modi. Do you have the same feelings about the Congress (and the UPA, extending this logically). Because what happened in Delhi was not any better than what happened in Gujarat. Would you want to economically ostracize them as well?
The people of Gujarat have shown TWICE via democratic process what they think about Modi. Based on that, would you prefer we ostracize Gujarat and kick it out of the Union?
madmax
014
12:00 am
SHAME ON YOU MUTINY FOR PUBLISHING THIS ARTICLE…FOR ME THE WRITER IS NO DIFFERENT FROM MODI HIMSELF…
BAN HIM
015
12:08 am
Ban 1con. Its ppl like him who are a prob to the country.
And I SERIOUSLY want to know what the others in the edit team think abt this. Forget chacko, he ll come up with a brilliant explanation supporting the post. Others? are you all fine with this post?
Jharna Pathak
016
12:25 am
I do not understand why we are singing praises for NANO coming to Gujarat. We really have very little knowledge about the conditions of transfer of land to TATA. If the Government has subsidized, I fail to understand its need to encourage investing in Ahmedabad which is the developed district of the State rather than in investing in area with less fertile land. Government should have concentrated in developing agricultural extension services and other input, credit and market related constraints faced by farmers rather than parting away the State’s land to TATA.
Although with TATA coming in, would attract mainly foreign investments and increase the exports, but the major portion of cake of economic
benefits would not benefit the common people but a select few like Real Estate Developers mafia and mostly unscrupulous faction of the people.
With the setting up of industry, it would put additional pressure on existing resources like water, forest and other natural resources, massive devastation of demography and the spectre of slavery are
some of the most drastic consequences.
Studies have shown that labour absorption rate in industries is less than expected. Current Government with an incentive of earning short term gains, favours privatization thereby forgetting about its objective of regulating distribution of resources more equitably within its people. I would like to join the group to voice my concern about revenue losses incurred to the state from the land privileges for the TATAs.
@jharna
017
12:37 am
at least u seem to be having a logical point of view to join the chorus against Tata in Guj, unlike our dear friend 1con who is not worried abt anyhing but the demolition of the Sangh Parivar, Modi and their goons, and has only one reason to oppose this move, “Modi has blood on his hands”.
Hilarious!
At Cheruti
018
1:30 am
The idea of a controlling authority vs independant authority is a red herring.
The point still remains that people are responsible for the politicians they elect. The ones who elected Modi are responsible for what he does in toto.
@atcheruti
019
1:38 am
and what about people who dint elect him, who dint vote for him?
I hate modi. I dont vote for him in the elections. He is a mastermind and a cunning politician. He wins. I lose.
I am looking for a job, Ratan Tata comes and tells me he ll give me a job. And, because of a few people like you, Tata realizes Modi has blood on his hands and he decides to leave Guj. Modi has no issues with that, but yet because of HIM, i dont get a job. I lose again.
Am i responsible for the situation then???? What kind of a stupid logic is that At Cheruti?
Lets not hate Gujarat and stop Tata setting up a plant for Guj jus cos a loser is the CM.
And, in the morning when the edit team wakes up, consider taking this post back, or stop filtering posts.
Barath
020
2:45 am
300 acre within the Company that made the project to move almost 1500km ,
Ok I know 2000 UnWilling farmers where there , but why dont you see 10000 willing farmes , You can not just hijack a project for a minority . Well if they are really affected you should fight for getting same or double amount of land from the Govt .. instead if you ask inside the project area … you guys are narrow minded , failed, and anti development ..
in an acre around 10 to 20 people will work for a year to get 5000 to 50000 in agriculture , but think about a factory …
Hmm I know you guys will say agriculture will be doomed .. hmm think again if we convert all the fields to facotry then only we have to trade with aliens …
its stupidity to say that agriculture will be doomed
Far from truth
021
5:49 am
I wonder why am i even commenting on this article. It is just because my considerations for mutiny as a new seemingly good platform for parallel thinking.
This article is BIASED, FARTHEST FROM TRUTH, STATISTICALLY INCORRECT,
POORLY WRITTEN.
Seriously, what is the screening process before anyone get to share his thoughts here.
Na na na na Nano
022
6:55 am
You’re spreading ill will in the World, sending negative energy into the World, inciting irritation & anger in people.
No good human being would ever do that. Unless they were still stuck in their rebellious teens
Swati
023
8:43 am
I-con
If you’d only allow your far reaching vision to touch what has happened to the image and future of WB today …Tata gave them a chance…and they blew it.
Ashok
024
9:25 am
think twice before writing anything like this.
What do you think? Gujarat is owned by Mr. Modi or his property. The state Gujarat is part our country and is owned by us not by Mr. Modi.
Mr. Modi is just facilitating industries to be setup in the state of Gujarat, and he is doing a very good job in doing that. That should be the only thing any good industrialist looks for as Mr. Tata did.
Grow up man, don’t listen to media and don’t let them control your thinking.
Kislay Chandra
025
10:32 am
Dude ! You did not think twice before posting this . And I think its kind of funny . What you said is impractical even by utopian standards . And why blame the Tatas alone ? By your rationale , shouldn’t every player who has invested in Gujerat during Modi’s regime should be ashamed of himself ? What about RIL ? Should they close their shop ? And what do you have to say about future investments in Orisaa and Karnataka ?
almostinfamous
026
10:49 am
Ratan Tata is a capitalist and an industrialist. The BJP is more capital-friendly in principle and practice than anyone else. The strongest state for the BJP, for various reasons, is Gujarat. The only reason the Tatas would invest in Bengal were if Buddha offered some serious sugar. sadly, there turned out to be a large fly in the form of Mamta Bannerjee in that sugar. Thus, they jumped from one corner of the nation to another.
I would advise people against idolizing ANYONE, let alone such fickle characters as capitalists or politicians.
I am amused and at the same time frightened to hear people wanting to ban views dissenting from the ’standard’ discourse. if you have an argument with the opinions put forth in this article, please provide your side of the debate. ‘banning’ him does not change his mind, reasoned arguments may.
almostinfamous
027
10:58 am
Secondly, do we really need more cars? with the climate being what it is and having to import so much petroleum?
Hari
028
4:08 pm
what a sick post without any logic ? ?
Actually I am sick for visiting rotten hate mongering sites like this.
1conoclast
029
7:03 pm
Kalind,,, Thank you.
Swati… Touche!
arZan… Thank you for your comment. The post has been revised to elaborate on what I was saying. Would appreciate your going through it again. I am not pro-Singur.
Balaji… please see above response to arZan. Thanks for commenting.
At Cheruti… Thank you.
Comment # 008… Re-read the post again please. If you don’t get the point I can explain. If you don’t agree, that’s a different story.
Comment # 009… insomuch… The site & the commenters thank you for your good wishes. We wish you the same.
Comment # 013… sagarone… Sure! Despite being avowedly Congress, I was glad when the commission held HKL Bhagat guilty. I liked the fact that the party itself denied the three main accused tickets because they were embroiled in the controversy. I admire the party’s guts for tendering an apology, albeit very late.
Contrast this with what the bjp did with modi. They raised slogans saying “jo hindu hith ki baat karega, woh Bharat pe raaj karega” Isn’t the difference in stance obvious there?
As for being democratically elected, so was Hitler! The support of Germans then for Hitler & his policies made them responsible as well. And they did live with the ignominy of being called “Germans” for a pretty long time! Over to you.
Comment # 014 & 015… Thank you for expressing your views.
Jharna Pathak… Thank you for commenting. Did you want to join the site as a contributor?
Comment # 019… The revised post is back up for your perusal. I hope you got your answer?
Comment # 021… Awaiting your updated comments please.
Comment # 022… Touche as before!
swati at Comment # 023… As I said before, this is not in favour of West Bengal. They screwed up, all right! This one is about principles.
Ashok at Comment # 024…
Do you REALLY think the media is controlling my thinking? Why don’t you refer to the DNA post. It’ll either clarify things for you or muddle you further. We can talk after that.
Kislay… We’ve already had this conversation on my blog.
almostinfamous… Thank you.
hari… already replied to you on the DNA post.
Thank you all for your comments.
why?
030
9:39 pm
and thank you for getting back to being decent.
just because shit is wrapped in gift-wrappers doesnt mean it does not smell. since we read ur prev post, we knw the mentalitiy with which u read tht post. so it stinks anyway,
why?
031
9:42 pm
and oh btw, have u decided if u r in your rebellious teens or a bad human being? now that the post has got back only to be a bit more subtle, ur attitude remains. so, tat answer wud help ur readers.
Jains
032
10:37 pm
Some people are though that what ever they think is right no matter whether it is against the person , society , state or country. And the surprising think is this yet they are patriot one . All the media – TV- Movies supports the people like these. They Do not believe in the constitution nor in the dignity of INDIA .
Bhagwan Bachayee in secularistoo se…
Jharna Pathak
033
12:12 pm
@1conoclast
Would love to become a contributor. Thanks a lot.
1conoclast
034
12:35 pm
why?
You have the right to disagree. You also have the right to disagree rudely if you choose to do so.
I’ve said what I wanted to through my post.
You’re the one chasing me around in the comments section.
Jains,
It may help you to go through this post since you too seem afflicted with an anti-secularism stance. Are you anti-ahimsa too? Anti everything good? Anyway, read this please:
http://mutiny.in/2008/10/09/im-done-with-dna/
Here’s another example of (newly right-wing) DNA’s targeting “Secularists”. I am sometimes accused for connecting everything to the evils of modi & others in the right wing. I’m sure those people will be able to see DNA’s deliberate linking everything to & running down of the concept of “Secularism”, since it’s progressive, modern nature is at loggerheads with the conservative, ritualistic, caste-based agenda of the right-wing.
Please take special note of what yet another DNA columnist chooses to open with:
More dangerously, he goes on to say:
This columnist is actually trying to clear thr modi name through Tata’s decision to invest!
THIS is precisely the reason why apna Ratan should’ve stayed away!
why?
035
1:11 pm
i chase u around and you still dont own up to ur hypocrisy, guess that just proves tht irritating attitude of yours.
1conoclast
036
1:51 pm
why?…
Sentence structure becoming incoherent.
Breathe. Focus on facts. Then type.
1conoclast
037
1:57 pm
Jharna Pathak,
No thanks needed. You’re more than welcome. Please go here:
http://mutiny.in/join/
why?
038
2:39 pm
your brain is out of focus. or you r just trying not to understand what i wrote, or pretending not to understand.
give urself a break, get out of your rebellious teens.
1conoclast
039
3:24 pm
why?…
http://mutiny.in/2008/10/09/happy-dusshera/#comment-62151
Jagdeep Singh
040
9:42 am
It easy to write about Tata and know the ground reality about what you are talking about. Have you ever been to bengal ? Have you seen any city other than Kolkota(I dont even consider Kolkota as City for god sake.) ? Or does bengal has anyother city?
I am from Kharagpur. Which is just 3 hours away from Kolkota and has the best IIT in India. And still bengal government at its people has done nothing to develop the place. Tata aleast gave a try to do something with bengal. No one has that much guts to go into bengal. Its a shit hole.
CPI(M) has not done anything for bengal. Dont Blame Tata for what it is ! Tata has done more for the country than any other Industry in India.
I hate it when people give such stupid comments. I surely did not expect from Mutiny ! Just to get attention you cannot publish what every you want. Think properly before you write about anything. And think 1000 times before you support Bengal!
1conoclast
041
12:59 pm
Jagdeep,
Please re-read. There is no support for Bengal or the CPI(M) in here. This post has nothing to do with either of them.
I hate it when people give such stupid comments without reading or understanding the post. I surely did not expect this from a reader of the Mutiny!
Surely the Tatas have done loads for India. All I’m saying is that Ratan ruined it with one false move! And that’s my perception. You are not obliged to agree.
There are two kinds of people in this world. One to whom injustice matters, the environment matters, small things like right & wrong matter. Which type are you? Do you care about things like water conservation, electricity, pollution, the environment? About social justice, equality? About the right not to be murdered in cold blood because of your caste, creed, colour, religion, sex etc? Do you care? If you don’t then you’re the sort that doesn’t care. I happen to be the sort who cares.
Jagdeep Singh
042
4:20 pm
I think you know the mordern version of Catapilar and Ant Story. Where ant saves food for winter and Catapilar enjoys and when winter arives he gets pity from everyone. You are just like that. You dont see how much hardwork Gujrat has done. To become what it is now. All you see is communal-roits that happened.
What would you do when your Companies stock price are going down day by day. You are loosing money everyday. Would you risk you company for one project? Would you starve your entire employee stength for making one project work ? Come on lets be praticle. Just because you can write that does not mean you write any bull shit!
Ratan Tata tried his best to set up project in Bengal. But it was due to stupid polatics that he pulled out of Bengal. People of bengal know only to go for strikes. Thats all. When Tata came to bengal there was strike now . He has left there is strike.
Tell me which other company tried entrying bengal and has been successful.
And about supporting right and wrong!
Going by ur comment (About the right not to be murdered in cold blood because of your caste, creed, colour, religion, sex etc?)
As far as you Article is concern I think you wrote it just because Tata went to Gujrat. And Because Gujrat is governed by Modi. And he is blamed for Roit.(I am not supporting him for that. If he is involved in it).
Had Ratan Tata gone to some other place probably you would not have writen this article and I would not have wasted my time replying to it.
I dont know which side you are in My Author. Probably you are just centimental that it left Bengal or Did not like Tata going to bengal. Please stop blaming Mr. Tata. He is a gem of a person. Who is trying to fullfil his promise to India?
Do you have an idea why did he come up with the idea of 1lakh car? Let me tell you. What he said in one of the Interview. He said he saw a family of 4 going in Bike on a rainly day. With one child sitting on Bike Tank and another on mother’s Arms. Thats what made him make Nano.
I am on the right side. Which side are you on Mr?
1conoclast
043
7:00 pm
Jagdeep…
Really old story & have heard it far too often.
No one is discrediting the hard work that Gujarat has done. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t deserve punishment for the hard-killings that they indulged in.
If you read the post properly, you’d have understood that development is not the only thing in a nation’s life or a human being’s life. Justice, fairness, the right to live & not be killed is equally important. So take your development piece somewhere else. It won’t fly with me.
All I’m saying puttar is that Ratan could’ve gone to Karnataka, AP or Maharashtra who were also in the running. He didn’t want to take a stand and that in my eyes makes him less of a human being & less of an Indian.
I’m not in favour of Bengal either. Bengal got what it deserved. He should’ve pulled out of Bengal a long time back, in protest of Nandigram.
ITC if I’m not mistaken is a very successful company based in Cal, isn’t it?
I’m on no one’s side. Like I said I’m not in the least bit rooting for Bengal at all.
As for why Ratan decided to make the Nano, I think it was pure business. I’ve already written about Tata Motors’ approach to quality. Have you read that bit? Please read it.
Please also read Nobel Peace Prize Winner Dr. Rajendra Pachauri’s comments on the Nano.
Don’t tell me about Ratan Tata’s reasons for making the Nano. He is a businessman & that’s about it. He saw a huge market for the Nano so he made it. He is going to make a lot of money through that . That was what he wanted, that’s all!
And Gujarat will make money too. And they will use it to fund/further their evil schemes. That is the problem that you fail to recognize.
Of course you’re on the “right” side. Don’t you mean the right-wing side?
I’m on the balanced side. Yes to development, but not before asking at what cost!
Jagdeep Singh
044
10:06 am
Oh Yes you are that kind ! The Balance one … yeah !
How do you connect to internet … probably using some 1st Generation computers which dont polute environment may be. It must be hot in your Hut too. You dont use A/C for sure. Drink normal water from ‘Ghada’. Who needs Cold water and use of Fridge which is one of the biggest Polutants in Earth.(So is A/C). I am sure you go to office on Bicycle. May be you dont use paper at all. Innocent Trees are cut for them. Come on whom are you kidding. Dont try to hide in curten of Balance.
You know what is Neutral state ? Equal presence of Good and Bad.
I would say whats your state is :-
Anti -BJP (For Hindutva idea and other Idologies)
Pro- Congress(except for Reservations I think. May be Sikh Roits)
You know what I call people who call them Balanced ?
” ‘Dhobi Ka Kutha’ na Ghar ka na Ghat ka. ”
If you are balanced you should have forgiven Gujrat what had happened. We all are sorry about it. But that does not mean each and every time we take the same topic and Cry about it. there is something called “Forgive and Forget”. It is something in past.
I dont like Congress too for Anti-Sikh Roits but that does not mean I oppose what ever they do. - Jai Hind.
(No Offence)
why?
045
11:00 am
“Don’t tell me about Ratan Tata’s reasons for making the Nano. He is a businessman & that’s about it. He saw a huge market for the Nano so he made it. He is going to make a lot of money through that . That was what he wanted, that’s all!”
If you are smart enough to know that, then why bother?? Why should a business man think about the communal politics, which BTW, exist in every state, not Guj alone????????
Jagdeep, bang on. Icon, we all hated what happened in Gujarat. You stop crying about it everyday and critising every development which happens there, just because it is Gujarat. You are not balanced, you are desperate, cos no one will listen to your bullshit in real life, let alone do something based on it. Nothing wrong in being desperate, just accept it.
Swati
046
11:04 am
Wasn’t this crap deleted?
Che Guevara
047
11:26 am
Oh! So this post is up again? If Mutiny is really serious about its dreams of being an Indian thought terminus, kick this iconic moron out.
almostinfamous
048
11:44 am
there is a fair amount of Bengal-bashing here, when it should be Mamta-bashing. While i agree that the Singur project was controversial in its founding, there are far better ways of resolving the issue than what that megalomaniacal lady did including hurting the workers etc.
@ Che Guevara, given your name that comment (047) is highly ironic. i am definitely laughing, i dont know about you.
@ Swati, the Ed team made it clear that this post was removed from the front page, and not deleted. i guess you are not aware of the intricacies of wordpress(the publishing platform
) 1conoclast himself mentioned that ‘the post was available’ for those who knew where to look. i didnt care much for the post anyway, as it was a rant i might have come up with another day. that people are taking this so seriously is what amuses me somewhat.
Swati
049
12:01 pm
i guess you are not aware of the intricacies of wordpress(the publishing platform
..
Correct…I’m not.
I agree…this is a rant and must be ignored.
1conoclast
050
2:37 pm
Jagdeep & why?,
Balance is what you say neutral is - equal presence of everything.
Do you know what the Ideal state is?
Do you know that I don’t care much for what you think about balanced people? Try losing your balance, physical or mental & then tell me that you don’t value balance. I’ve seen enough extremists like you decrying moderation, balance etc. So for me, it’s pretty much: Jab haathi chalte hain, toh kutte bhownkte hain!
Balance doesn’t mean forgiving & forgetting. Balance means a little bit of that & a little bit of continuing to fight for justice.
You can’t keep on forgiving without justice. How many things will you forgive & forget? Will you forget every bomb blast that rocks our country? Will you forget every riot that rocks our country - gujarat, Orissa, Karnataka…? Will you forgive & forget the terrorism & injustices of Kashmir, Assam, Nagaland?
Sure I can forget. Once justice is done I can forgive & forget. We don’t keep hounding the Brits for their injustices. We made India a loss-making proposition for them, we kicked them out, motive achieved, so now we can move on. Similarly with the demon & his party… once they are brought to justice, I will not have a problem forgiving & moving on. (Forgetting too is tinged with danger. Forgetting means it could happen again.)
Until that time, I & the others you don’t like (Padamsee, Ahmed, Setalvad, Akhtar, Azmi etc. etc. etc.) will keep talking about it. I don’t see you guys telling the right-wingers to stop about their 700 years of hindu subjugation. Why don’t you chase them up & teach them the value of forgetting? This incident is still fresh, and we have killers in our midst!
As Ghalib said, royenge hum hazaar baar, koi humein sataayay kyun!
swati & che,
Sorry you’re so disappointed. Aren’t you the one swati who keeps jumping up & down if your comments are deleted? I’m assuming that has something to do with the right to speak one’s mind freely? This is my point of view. This is a thought terminus. You don’t like it, go elsewhere.
Funny how you have a problem with rants swati, since that’s about all you do. Besides switching from ranting to indignation at your rant being deleted. And then being indignant at another rant not being deleted. Can you take one stance please or will you always osscilate this wildly between extremes?
Swati
051
4:25 pm
Sigh, I asked if it WASN’T deleted. I didn’t ask for it to be deleted. And my last post was in agreement with Almostinfamous.
“i didnt care much for the post anyway, as it was a rant i might have come up with another day. that people are taking this so seriously is what amuses me somewhat.”
Selective reading?
1conoclast
052
4:40 pm
I’m on a ‘let it go’ spree…
Swati
053
7:16 pm
Munna bhai ishtyle?
Jagdeep Singh
054
10:20 pm
Hey Mr 1conoclast
So finally you spoke up. Good. Thats what I want to hear. You are just pissed that Nano went to Gujarat. And Gujarat being place where innocent people Died. You are not pissed off from Ratan Tata But just the decision he took to go there.
What ever!
And coming to all you lecture on riots and terrorism. Come on who will be happy to see innocent people die. you are blaming things on me. as if when every there is a boom blast. I sit out with pop-kon and enjoy people dying. its not like that.
I hate every attacks on My Country and hate to see people die on those attacks. Yes I too want people to brought to Justice I made that clear in my last statement of my last comment itself.
I tend not to mix up progress with communal violence which you are doing here. You just wrote this topic out of anger that Project went to Gujarat. Thats all I am saying. I know you would agree on that. (If not on comments personally).
And seriously if you are really so much concern about all this things. Trying helping people. Instead of Blogging.(Dont throw the same thing on me as I am already doing my part. For your Information. By helping them.)
And please don’t mistake me to be Pro- Hindutva or anything. Which I am not.
Jai Hind
why?
055
11:30 pm
When did I say the hidutvis were right or they dont need to get a balance? They need to.
But, my point is, so do you. You blame them for every problem in the country, to the effect that industrialists shouldnt invest in states which have communal admins. Thats crap. And thats out of balance.
I am not asking you to forgive and forget, I am asking you to stop being ridiculous.
Jagdeep Singh
056
11:31 pm
By the way. I read you another article on deshara. Really great one. The Links where awesome. I am sure you know that Amaranth Yatra was actually found by A Muslim man who is Trustee of the Temple still.
Now that was a good article. And for that you closed comments. All the one where there is blood bath you wont close. Everything for TRPs is it ?
Jagdeep Singh
057
11:33 pm
Hey Why,
Even I was trying to explain Mr Author that only.
Thanks.
ashok.chava
058
10:24 am
Very well said Mr. Jagdeep Singh.
Ashok Chava
http://www.indianhippy.com
Adi
059
11:03 am
people like you are so well entrenched in their hate-modi strategy that anything and everything related to him is blasphemous to say the least… if some migratory birds travel to gujarat for purely natural reasons, you’ll brand them as minority-haters and jingonistic too… modi-bashing is such a pleasurable game na?
you’ll hound him forever for the gujarat riots, right? but not one of your brotherhood will say a word about the cause that started those riots. what about the genocide of hindus in kashmir? what about the anti-sikh riots in delhi? even today as i write this, the state worst affected by so called communal tension is assam, where more people have died in a few days then the whole kandhamal episode. nobody will point a finger there. ‘cos the state is ruled by a pro minority vote-bank party?
get real man.
you are not angry at mr. tata for shifting base to gujarat. you are angry becasue gujarat is administered by somebody who shows all the pseudo-secularists their true aukat. you being one of them.
1conoclast
060
8:29 pm
jagdeep, why?, adi…
I am only going to point out to you that when The Father of the Nation set out on his boycott of British made goods, salt etc., there were enough people like him who asked him to “get real”, “not be ridiculous” etc.
Who was right in the end?
I’m a firm believer in his quote that I’ll leave you with for you to mull over:
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
Read some more here: http://thinkexist.com/quotation/first_they_ignore_you-then_they_laugh_at_you-then/214891.html
Jagdeep Singh
061
9:38 pm
hello Mr.
I am totally confused. Now what do you want to say ? What was the above life for ! Please speak to context. From Tata you went to gujarat and now you are into Our Father of Nation, Mr Gandhi !
You want to Boycott Tata ? Stop eating Tata Salt first. I am 100% sure that is used in your Home. If you take Bus do not board on Bus too. Most of them are Tata’s again. Oh I forgot Tea you drink. Not 100% atleast 80% it will be TATA gain. What all are you going to Boycott dude. Tata is present in every Indian’s Blood some way or the other! You like it or not.
I dont know why you gave that Quote for.
Do you know what you are writing ? Or you are High on Marijuana or Alcohol again!
For you from the same Source you gave me :
“We must become the change we want to see.”
and
“The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”
How much Mahatma is in you now ? Do you have the Courage to follow what you say or on whom you believe in ?
1conoclast
062
9:59 pm
jagdeep,
It’s not hard to confuse you anyway. If you don’t understand the context, ask your friends; they’ll explain it to you.
We use Saffola Salt in our house by the way. Anyway I am not against everything that the Tatas do. I have a problem with the Nano & Tata Motors.
You should re-read the article again. Or go to my blog & read the links that I have presented there if you want to understand the boycott principle in detail.
Sure I do. I can forgive. But that doesn’t mean I will stop fighting for Justice.
It’s not like Gandhiji had anything personal against the Brits. He was fighting them on principle. He forgave them all I’m sure. But he still sent them back home.
I can forgive. But I’d still like to see him in jail.
Jagdeep Singh
063
10:16 pm
One Small Question : Had Congress or any other Government running Gujarat … Would you have ever written this blog?
Thats all I want to know! Modi not in Picture.
Jagdeep Singh
064
10:19 pm
And now don’t bring your Environment Saving Crap just for the sake of Argument …!
why?
065
10:47 pm
1con, dont compare yourself to gandhi, you are an selfish single-track-minded fool who has been let free on the internet to spit venom and spread hatred. Dont talk bullshit. you are running out of answers so you are going to Swadeshi Movement and what not!!
Why dont you draw curtains on this post and stop making a fool out of yourself? You are pathetic, dont insult Gandhi anymore.
why?
066
10:49 pm
And that quote about “first they ignore…” was not made for idiots like you to misuse it, as far as you are concerned, we will keep laughing at your stupidity. Daily entertainment you see….what levels of helplessness and bullshitting you go to to prove your point.
almostinfamous
067
12:25 am
one comment in general, not particularly off topic but not on it either: i dont see why people see the need to defend politicians, whether they are rants or not. really, Mr Modi is not going to be unseated because some guy on a website(Which does put on airs of being a thought terminus- and terminus means ending, btw. please do change that unless you want to continue in current path) said something nasty about him. This is just one guy’s opinion, and you all apparently have yours, but why do y’all get so hostile? Are you all related to Mr Modi somehow*?
(no lame ‘Parivar’ jokes please)
Jagdeep Singh
068
12:35 am
Mr almostinfamous,
We are not defending Mr. Modi or any politicians. As you said he has his opinion. We have ours. Its as simple as that.
See from where the topic has gone where. The Author actually wanted to write about Modi and his crimes. I still fail to understand why this topic’s name is Shame on you Ratan Tata.
I doubt we would have such a big comment section or even this topic if Gujarat was ruled by some other politician?
For your thought process. Would anyone have written on this topic if Modi was not ruling Gujarat ? My answer is NO! Or if suddenly out of blue you start another argument to Save Earth!
Hope you get my point
almostinfamous
069
1:17 am
yes, but why can’t you just ignore it?
Jagdeep Singh
070
1:24 am
I just want him to accept this… thats all… you wont see another comment from me on this … i promise!
1conoclast
071
3:33 pm
jagdeep (it just struck me that your name is quite ironical considering your stance…!),
Sure I would have! Had the Cong. been running Gujarat at the time of the 2002 pogrom, I would’ve been screaming against them at the top of my lungs! It’s just that they were not… modi was. So it’s modi that will get the flak for his crimes. And anyone who ignores what he did, will also get flak! Since you’re willing to ignore what he did, you deserve as much derision as can be sent your way.
Since you bring up the Cong., I’d like you go thru the links below.
Please go to this link, do a ctrl+F, & type in the word “bhagat” (for hkl bhagat) & see how many times I have expressed joy at his having been convicted:
http://1conoclast.blogspot.com/2006_04_01_archive.html
If you follow debates on IndianMuslims, you will see my comments decrying the killers of the ‘84 riots. Please go to this link & repeat the ctrl+F & the “bhagat” search please: http://indianmuslims.in/narendra-modi-wins-gujarat-again/
I would recommend that you get posession of all facts before you begin to judge someone.
I would really like you to re-read the post on both blogs, to understand the logic behind the call for the boycott. After that, if you want to disagree, if you want to ignore the crimes that took place, just say so & it will end at that.
why?…
Why do you open your mouth? Just to put your foot in it?
I’m not comparing myself with Gandhiji. I’m only taking inspiration from him. I wish you would too…!
And I am not obliged to take suggestion from you. Curtains on this post are either my prerogative or the Edit Team’s. If I have to do something, why will I not debar your abusive comments? Just feel thankful for that dude.
You can laugh all you like. Just remember that quote. You laugh, I win.
Don’t laugh too much. They’ll throw you in the loony bin if you don’t stop for breath!
Jagdeep Singh
072
9:51 pm
Hi Mr Author,
Let me re-frame the question for you…
Gujarat Riots happened in 2002 in Modi Government OK! I get that. He has done big crime I know. He must be punished for it YES! He must be. I never said he must not be…!
Now here is my question. The Incident happened in 2002. What if some other government came to power. when ever the elections say 2004. And now Congress or any other government is ruling Gujarat.
And Now Tata comes to Gujarat to with Nano project.
Would you have written this blog even then ??
Thats all i am asking.
I am not saying that u support any government. Neither do I.
I am not Modi Supporter let me make that clear.
Ok! Now answer…
Jagdeep Singh
073
9:58 pm
I will read your Blogs later. Its Friday night for god sake.!
1conoclast
074
1:18 pm
Jags,
Good question. No. If modi was voted out I wouldn’t have called for an economic boycott of the state. With the people of Gujarat rejecting him & whatever he represents, things would’ve been indicative of hope. With him losing, his stature in the bjp would’ve fallen like Suresh Mehta’s did. It would be much easier to prosecute him without the state machinery at his disposal.
In that case there would be no need at all for us to indulge in any activism that would get people justice.
I hope you get my point.
Jagdeep Singh
075
7:24 am
That is all I wanted you to say to end this series of comments. From begining my point was that you are just pissed off … Because of Modi. and not Tata. You just wrote this topic for Modi. But named it Shame on you Tata. Thats what got me pissed off… simple!
Thanks for answering my question rightly! Good.
1conoclast
076
7:36 pm
Jags,
You’re misreading me. You probably asked the wrong question.
This post is less about modi & more about Tata. Yes I dislike modi, but I lost all respect for Tata for fraternizing with him. And for that, shame on Ratan Tata.
That’s still my stand.
Jagdeep Singh
077
7:03 pm
Mr. Author,
You proved your point when you said you would not have written this article if Modi was not in power! That proves it all.
See if you want to write good about anyone you can write 100 of things good about him/her and if you want to write wrong about anyone you can also write 100 things wrong about him. I can list out many things good about Hitler and I can also list many things wrong about Gandhi.
My point is Just because Tata went to Gujarat. I dont know from where you found that wheel thing and put that over here. and thing about Tata products are not good.
I am sure Tata would have gone to Gujarat if any Government was there. It does not Matter to him if Its Modi or anyone. His connection is with people! He wants development of any place in India. And Its not like Modi is going to come to his company and work there. Just because of Modi why do you even want to punish people of Gujarat?
By so called your Boycott you are going to make life misserable for the people of Gujarat! Is it like you want to punish everyone for the wrong doing of one man ? Hmm ??
And we all know how polls go in India! Dont you think he might have won some other way ! Rather than people voting him? (Your point was people voted him back) Think about it!
Your point of Tata being Bad is totally in-acceptable ! I would never support it. Its company like this that has made India! You talk all wrong about modi. You know what India PM said when Innocent Sikhs were killed ? When Big tree falls down earth will move!!!! And next election he won! So does that mean all the industerial development that time should be BOYCOTTED just because it was Rajiv Gandi ruling ? ah ? Tell me that now! Dont mix politics and development. I hate that when people do it!
I hate NGOs (even Mutiny is one of them I think atleast in Virtual world). you know why. You all dont think about all the factors. For example. LTTE keep killing people of Sri Lanka. And when Army take action all NGOs come and stand together and fight for Tamil rights. Same goes in India too. When there is attack in any place they will just keep quite and when people are arrested. They will stand for rights! This goes for every dam thing in this country. Everything. See if you want to talk about killings of Innocent Muslims I do agree with that. I can know and feel better than you do,I am a Sikh and I know how we where treated back in 1984. Does that Hate keeps me alive everyday ? No it does not! I have buried it down and I am moving on. Simple thing is people must believe in their country ! Its not about who is ruling.
Answer my simple questions :
How is politics and development of country related?
Should all development during Ravi Gandhi’s Rule must be so called BOYCOTTED???
Do you want to punish people of Gujarat by just because of Modi ?
You dont like anything about Tata ?
If you dont support only his going to Gujarat why the hell did you write about wheels and all the other shit.?
why?
078
7:12 pm
Ahh..
Jagdeep, This post has been written by an extremist, who will churn out ten unrelated questions in return of your simple questions. We have had enough, most here wud agree that the post is stupid and more shameful for the writer, especially the first version (Oh my god!) And anyway, I am pretty sure he has smart answers for all of em even if he is willing to answer. But the topic will only get further diverted.
Not like he is going to understand, or accept it even if he did. His single aim: spread hatred abt Saffroners and ppl even remotely related to them, which is kinda foolish and reminds me of Hindutvis. So just forget it. Icon, can you please not reply to any of this and just end this?
Jagdeep Singh
079
7:19 pm
I totally agree with you my friend! I am going to stop this. I hate what he wrote wrong about Tata cause all my life. I had grown up with Tatas we still work there and someone fool just coming and saying wrong about it. I could not accept that. He has done lot than anyone in this country has done. This is my last comment. I know Mr Author would try his best to provoke me again! But I am just going to leave this. Forgive a fool and Forget.
1conoclast
080
9:40 pm
Jags,
It’s difficult to make you understand. Maybe you’re looking at things empassioned right now. I’ll tell you what. After a few months, come back & re-read this post. And re-read my comments on why I wrote it. You’ll understand the reasons for my calling for a boycott.
why?…
Give me reasons why anyone shouldn’t criticize the saffron brigade?
I’ll end it if you end it.
Jags,
I didn’t try & provoke you. If you got provoked it means you have a long way to go before you become a strong human being.
PS: I knew that you were hurting so much because you probably grew up with the Tatas. Don’t take it personally. I respected the Tatas too, but Ratan isn’t doing great things to the good name. That’s my whole point.
why?
081
12:57 pm
Again, why should you do NOTHING on mutiny but critisize the saffroners? Asked the same question elsewhere, in someother post as well. Answer in one place, enough.
1conoclast
082
5:14 pm
why? @ 081,
I’d like it if you were a little more exact. Not every post of mine addresses the sangh parivar. You should re-check before making that extravagant claim. Most of my posts might.
Besides it’s no secret that I have made it my mini-mission in life to educate the reading public about the evil that they represent. Since you won’t do it, someone’s gotta do it.
But your feedback is welcome. Probably the point you’re trying to make is that it’s overkill on my part or something of the sort. However, I’d only be concerned if I was trying to create a journalistic reputation. My intention is not that. It is to try & save the Indian mindset from getting corrupted by what the aforesaid is trying to propogate.
Swati
083
8:57 pm
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/why-india-needs-narendra-modi/375103/
Swati
084
7:07 am
It would be foolish to ignore Modi’s accomplishments while only highlighting his one massive unforgivable blunder. It takes a big man to hang in there in the face of mass criticism, try and overcome his own flaws and move on, taking others with him. It takes a bigger man to recognise that effort and acknowledge it instead of staying stuck in a repetitive rut. So, for once, I agree with Suhel Seth.
1conoclast
085
3:59 pm
swati…
Allow me to try & say something without going ballistic…
Playing Devil’s advocate huh?
No wonder there are so many jokes maligning lawyers! 
If you’re suggesting that you don’t agree with Suhel Seth otherwise, could it be that you’re agreeing with him now because he is saying the words you’ve always wanted to say? That’s the sad part about politics. Don’t they say something about politics & strange bedfellows? And mind you I don’t mean this as personal criticism of you. Anyone can succumb to the temptation of agreeing with an enemy who is suddenly speaking his/her language. I may not be above it either despite my trying not to. Anyway… I digress.
The point that everyone seems to be missing is this:
Germany prospered a lot under hitler.
China prospers a lot under a totalitarian regime.
There were Germans who said that Germany needed a hitler.
I go back to Anjan’s point above:
I have a problem with the suggestion that development can only come at the hands of violent, right-wing, conservatives.
We’ve seen what the conservatives have done to America’s economy. Not to mention World Peace!!!
We’ve also seen what men like Anna Hazare have achieved in Ralegan Siddhi. That too is development. Without the hate-mongering.
What about the guys who are involved in housing projects in rural India. Bringing better housing to people in villages. Is that not where we need the development? Doesn’t everyone keep asking about the aam aadmi?
Instead of defending killers like modi, can people like Suhel Seth & you not devote time to writing about people like Anna Hazare & others who bring about development without being killers?
Are intelligent, presumable moral people of today, India’s future of tomorrow(?) succumbing to the PR exercise of the sangh?
I’d like to end by saying that in retrospect Germany did need a hitler. German uber-nationalism & resultant aggression had been the highlight of WW-I & the cause of WW-II. It took two massive body blows for the Germany to come to their senses. They suffered sanctions, partition & great ignominy before they realized the folly of having backed a man so utterly insane. They had their darkest hour before their dawn.
If that is the way India wants it, I’m fairly certain She will get it.
Swati
086
5:17 pm
Suhel Seth is not a babe in the woods. He’s in a line where words are thrown around for effect all the time. He’d know a line from miles away. He, like Karan Thapar, does not have a nice effect on my nerves but is definitely intelligent. So when he says this, being a Muslim, he risks being mocked for changing his stance on Modi.
If we must respect OMAR for what he SAYS and not see it as empty talk inspite of almost zero work backing him up, I don’t see why we must not respect the work MODI has done. It does not take away from the contempt we have for his action/inaction in that one case.
Sure we can talk about Anna Hazare, but why don’t you blog about him so we can praise him to the skies? Go on…
1conoclast
087
5:44 pm
swati…
This conversation isn’t about Suhel Seth? I didn’t even know he’s Muslim. All I knew was that he was an adman & ex IIM-C. Being those things doesn’t preclude you from being horribly wrong for once in your life, does it?
I think Omar will die if he hears of himself being spoken in the same breath as modi. And I really don’t see the link between “empty talk” & “sanctioning mass-murder”. :-/
Sure the man deserves credit for what he’s done to an already prospering & industrious Gujarat. Given them good PR vis a vis Industry.
He also deserves trial & jail for being India’s Miroslav Deronjic (if not worse).
I like the way you’ve totally side-stepped the nazi germany picture of India that I painted of you.
And genuine heartfelt thanks for suggesting an Anna Hazare post. I will do so with all the available alacrity at my disposal.
Swati
088
5:52 pm
Suhel Seth isn’t talking about himself…not am I. The link was about SS talking about Modi …and I was merely stating that SS is not an idiot. So..
And India is not ONLY about making minorities comfortable. Once the minorities start seeing themselves as a part of the majority, maybe most problems will be solved. When one asks for the right to ’stand apart’, one is given that right. Why complain?
1conoclast
089
6:12 pm
Only you know your intent best Swati…
You didn’t rest at presenting the link. You put in a follow up comment.
You refuse to address the development-hitler-nazi germany India possiblity.
You take a discussion from development & justice to “making minorities comfortable“. COMFORTABLE??? I guess not being killed should count as comfortable. And there are some people who don’t call 11% a minority.
Only you know your motivations best swati……
I’d rather not comment.
Swati
090
6:47 pm
There should be no 11%. Only a 100%…Indians. It is not about wiping out a religion, it is about wiping out differences. Something I’ve said from the beginning.
Swati
091
6:53 pm
http://soulinexile.blogspot.com/2008/08/shabana-playing-victim.html
This ‘playing the victim’ routine is becoming a bit tiresome, Icon. Muslims need to get comfortable in their own skins, stop being defensive and recognise opportunities when presented with them. One can’t be special and equal at the same time.
What happened in Gujrat was shameful, not forgivable. Read this line as many times as you need to so you get that I don’t want a ‘Nazi’ India. But please stop denying everything Modi has done right.
1conoclast
092
7:58 pm
OH NO NO NO swati!!!
You are NOT going to make this into a Muslim focused debate!!!
You’ll really have to control that urge. I’d rather close comments here than see this being pulled down into another half-baked set of opinions around “Muslims mentality”.
NOT that again!!!
I’ll tell you what. I have a solution. Dr. Hannibal Lecter was an immense knowledge base that was exploited brilliantly by those who needed the information. His being brilliant in his field, didn’t mean he was let loose on the streets. He was in prison. Approached by those who wanted his help.
Why don’t we do the same? Try modi & put him behind bars. From his cell, he can be consulted on economic development for Gujarat. Why just Gujarat? All of India can avail his services. We can even get him to help America out of their crisis. He can still do all of this from behind bars, can’t he?
That way, justice will be served, he will be disallowed to do what he does so badly, and he will continue to do what he does so well. The devil will then get this WHOLE due!!! What do you say?
3 last points for you to ponder over (but not speak about anymore):
- Think very very carefully before you present a random biased blog link to me. I don’t quote from sites with clear bias against a certain people. Why should you? You may want to read this though: http://citizensforpeace.in/blog/2008/08/27/why-shoot-the-messenger/
It may cure you of your urge to speak without reading up first!
- I guess ALL Muslims play the victim??? Each & everyone? We don’t have any Kalams, Rehmans, Hameeds, Premjis etc. at all??? Tsk Tsk! What a sorry state of affairs.
- Isn’t that the same language that your friends in the sangh speak? “We Hindus have been tolerant for too long! We shouldn’t be taken for granted! We have been ruled over for centuries!” Weaning people away from the spirit of tolerance. No wonder India’s in the mess it’s in.
Swati
093
9:49 pm
Oh yes, yes…this has to do with Muslims. Why else do you hate MODI? hahaha!
Shabana was a sane voice till very recently. I don’t know what prompted her ‘I’m a victim too’ tirade.
No, Kalam, Shabana, Azhar, etc were embraced by all Indians for what they were…and I don’t mean vis a vis their religion. Shabana was lauded for what she said against Imam Bukhari. And what she said about buying apartments in Mumbai might be true but no amount of tom-tomming that bias is going to change anything. The ’stand apart’ order in the book has to be understood clearly by those who want to integrate with the ‘majority’.
Put Modi in jail by all means. I just hope you have an equally efficient alternative ready.
//”I don’t quote from sites with clear bias against a certain people”//
You don’t have to, you also have a clear bias against Hindutvis which we all share with you….no problemo. It is human to be biased. Which part of this blog do you disagree with anyway? And why do you think he is biased?
Yes Hindus have been tolerant for too long, I can’t refute that statement even if it comes from a Hindutvi. Just as I can’ t refute the fact that there is a clear bias against Muslims in India today. And it is for both sides to wonder why.
Swati
094
10:07 pm
Your point of Tata being Bad is totally in-acceptable ! I would never support it. Its company like this that has made India! You talk all wrong about modi. You know what India PM said when Innocent Sikhs were killed ? When Big tree falls down earth will move!!!! And next election he won! So does that mean all the industerial development that time should be BOYCOTTED just because it was Rajiv Gandi ruling ? ah ? Tell me that now! Dont mix politics and development. I hate that when people do it!
…
Bravo Singhji! Sardaarandi shaan vakhri!
Jagdeep Singh
095
10:29 pm
Thanks swati !
I asked Mr Author the same questions. He Never answered them. I know now he will come on defense and write a big comment on this. If you see my second last comment you will find some questions ! I never got answers for them. To know more about Mr author just check out all the Blogs he has written. You will understand. There are some good ones too. But mostly … Its same old topic …! Leave it’s like “Bhais ke ahge been Bajana”
Swati
096
9:18 am
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?sid=2&fodname=20081110&fname=BMalegaon+Terror+(F)
From what we might call an unbiased writer.
Swati
097
9:19 am
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?sid=2&fodname=20081110&fname=BMalegaon+Terror+(F)
oops
Swati
098
9:21 am
sheesh..please add the (f) in the link or google ‘the hindu rate of wrath’ …thanks.
1conoclast
099
2:54 pm
swati @ 093:
I am insulted by your assumption. At this point every pore of my body feels derision & revulsion for you.
I don’t hate modi because the guys he targeted were Muslims. I hate him because he killed other human beings. For that he is the devil incarnate! If he’d have killed anyone else I’d have hated him equally.
The “stand apart” thing is your bloody head. Every single Muslim who decided to stay back in India instead of going to Pakistan saw himself as an Indian & wanted to remain integrated. hadh hoti hai andhepan ki
As for your tolerant claim, please look up the decline of Buddhism & Jainism in India. Look up Kosambi. We’ll talk in another less public forum. I don’t want to be part of any more maligning anyone.
@ 094:
Ratan Tata did not build India. His forefathers did. He revived the fortunes of his companies, that’s all. That some of his companies make bad products & offer poor service is a known fact. It’s also a known fact that they’re some of the best employers in India. It’s also commonly held that inside them it’s pretty sarkari. So much for the hotshot corporate honcho.
Anyway, my stand is against one act of Ratan Tata’s. I stand by my stand.
You won’t understand. You don’t care. It’s because of your not caring that our country is in the chalta-hai state of affairs. Nahi chalta hai boss.
And if Rajiv had been guilty of planning, inciting, encouraging the ‘84 riots & I was a 30 plus awakened citizen, I would’ve decried him too!
People like you seem to miss my references to hkl bhagat deliberately, but that’s OK.
Your opinion is fast beginning to not matter at all. You know what they about being ignored being worse than being hated, don’t you.
Jags @ 095:
I answer everything. If you don’t understand the answer (or the post as Ujj suggested), don’t blame me.
Ask me again. And I’ll answer you again. Too bored with this argument (have moved on in case you haven’t noticed) to re-read # 042.
swati…
No thanks. I’ve heard enough of your point of view. And like I said I don’t really want to make this discussion a Muslim issue.
I feel enough views have been exchanged on this issue. If you guys are comfortable, I’d like to close comments here & move on.
Swati
100
4:17 pm
What you feel for me is thankfully not of any importance at all, to me or anyone else. So save it :). What is important is that Modi IS taking Gujrat forward..and Tata IS part of that progress. And just as Manmohan Singh has gotten over the past, so has Suhel Seth. THAT is what forward thinking is about ..or isn’t it?
Swati
101
4:24 pm
And if killing human beings is really the issue, then you must look deeper into what happened in Gujrat..mustn’t you? LIke someone commented in another blog…when Babri Masjid is demolished by HINDUS, the action is condemned..the reaction is seen as natural…when Gujrat burns, the action is ignored and the reaction is condemned.
Tolerance? Why don’t YOU tolerate MODI? He does have something positive to offer the country compared to many others who have nothing more than speeches, doesn’t he? So for the greater good of India, tolerate him.
Swati
102
4:30 pm
Close whenever you see fit, Icon. I’m beyond caring about deletions too honestly…because for you, the case is over and shut when u’re done blogging. Has your opinion on any topic changed with discussion?
1conoclast
103
6:36 pm
swati…
1. It may not matter to you, but it’s my duty to let you know what you bring out in people.
2. Gujarat has been ahead for many many years. I don’t see Madhav Sinh Solanki get any credit? Stop succumbing to the PR. Reliance, Cadila, Arvind & a host of other companies, both public & private were thriving & making Gujarat thrive much before modi came on the scene. Who are you trying to fool…?
3. Getting over the past is one thing. Justice is another. I wasn’t even personally affected by the riots in Gujarat. Nor by the riots in Bombay despite living in their midst. A riot saddens me & makes me wonder at the mentality of the populace, that’s all. What outrages me is the involvement of the state machinery. That is unforgivable. And that is why we need justice.
Sure I can forgive. But my forgiveness does not entail allowing a killer to continue to walk the streets a free man. Or is that concept a little too forward for you?
@ 101:
4. Let’s look deeper shall we? See what Tehelka has to say about Bombay 1992: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main35.asp?filename=Ne171107STRANDEDWHEELS.asp
You may want to read all the other instances as well for the “deeper” aspect.
5. - Retd. Justice UC Banerjee’s report on Godhra called it an accident. But you don’t want to believe him. Fine.
- Tehelka investigated the incident for 6 months & put up this report. Please keep clicking on the Next Page link at the bottom of the page. It’s a long report. Jitna tum poochogi swati, utna sach baahar aayega. Avashya poocho. Jaanna tumhara adhikaar hai. Lo parho sach! But you won’t believe Tehelka either will you?
- Teesta makes a valid legal point, but you don’t want to believe her either.
- You only want to believe modi. Chalega… IF you don’t want to be seen as inquiring, as logical, as a seeker of the truth, as human. Otherwise… nahi chalega…
NOW do you want to argue the reaction thing? If you watch cricket you will know. Indians are being punished by the ICC each time they react to provocation. The Aussies never react. They provoke. As both Tehelka reports will tell you, that’s what has been happening in India with the Muslims. There is poking & provoking. And when they react, there’s a pogrom! The ICC punishes the erring Indian. That is the widely held view in India. Not just by Muslims, but by non-sangh Hindus as well. Go research it if you want. Your eyes will be opened.
6. Tolerate modi? Of course I’m tolerating him. I’m letting him live in my country. I’m not adopting any vigilante form of justice. All I’m doing is speaking out against his crime & asking for justice. In fact, I’m being very Gandhian in my approach. OK Tilak if not Gandhian.
And since when did the greater good of India lie in a communally polarized state & rampant killing & subversion of justice???
Will close it when I see fit of course. What else did you think?
My opinion changes with discussion of course. Ask Arby K, ask akki.
As long as someone has a valid point backed with fact after demonstrated fact, my opinion will change. Mere indoctrinates with only arguments & no facts at their disposal can’t even convince themselves fully, forget convincing me.
My opinion of you had changed when you dropped your support to hindutva & the sangh. It changed again when you went back to supporting them. If I wasnt influenced by Gandhiji’s “Hate the sin, not the sinner” advice, I would’ve been fairly ashamed to even know someone like you.
Jagdeep Singh
104
8:46 pm
Mr Awaken Citizen aka Author.
Dont be so Naive…. Rajiv Gandhi knew what was going on and who did it. Ok…Everyone know this. It is same with Modi too. Both did not do anything about it. And for you Rajiv Gandhi was not Guilty and Modi was …. ? Come on… Just because you were 30 does not mean you were mature. I dont think you are mature even now.
You have some kind of Hate in you! … Take that out before it destorys you! You know you are the exactly kind of material that Miltants want to train. If any of JeM or HuJI or any terrorist organisation see this… you will surely be off for training to PoK or some place.
And one more piece of advice. This is not an age to write blog and be mast in internet world. Be with your family and children.
if Rajiv had been guilty of planning, inciting, encouraging the ‘84 riots & I was a 30 plus awakened citizen, I would’ve decried him too!
People like you seem to miss my references to hkl bhagat deliberately, but that’s OK.
Your opinion is fast beginning to not matter at all. You know what they about being ignored being worse than being hated, don’t you.
1conoclast
105
9:06 pm
Jagdeep,
Please… I don’t like talking to people who don’t read. Please read the Tehelka report then talk. Otherwise, don’t talk. You couldn’t already have read it. It’s a long report. I’m still finishing it, so don’t try & tell me that you read it.
I don’t like talking to people who will not inform themselves, but open their mouth emitting just noise.
On Rajiv: Please read the reports available on Rajiv’s exoneration. They have actually commended him for his role in bringing the riots to a halt. Yes, he could’ve acted sooner, but will he not be allowed a few hours to mourn his Mother? Insaan thha, bhagwaan nahi.
I have no hate in me. I love my country & it’s people. And anyone who acts against them, I have a problem with.
If the militants could get me, they would’ve gotten me by now wouldn’t they have Jags? Did the Khalistan movement get you? Or Bhindranwale? No na? Then shut up.
As for advice from you… hmmm… let me see…
Nope. I don’t think so. I don’t think you’re qualified to advice anyone.
I’m sure when Tilak was writing in the Kesari, people like you would’ve advised him to stay with family. IMAGINE if he’d taken their advice instead of trusting his Awakened Citizen instincts!!!
Go away Jags. Play with kids your own mental age. If you play with the big boys, you’re bound to get hurt.
Swati
106
10:11 pm
My opinion of you had changed when you dropped your support to hindutva & the sangh. It changed again when you went back to supporting them. If I wasnt influenced by Gandhiji’s “Hate the sin, not the sinner” advice, I would’ve been fairly ashamed to even know someone like you.
…
hahahhahahaha.
Swati
107
10:14 pm
Oh and just in case you don’t get it….the header of this blog is SHAME ON TATA…hahaha ‘hate the sin, not the sinner’ INDEED! LOL
Please Icon, so much unintentional humour?? You’re perfectly comfortable accusing me of supporting HINDUTVIS by calling them my ‘friends’ yet one insinuation that your blog is triggered by your hatred for a man who killed ‘MUSLIMS’ ( which ,btw, he did - shameful) is insulting enough to bring back the Icon from the Omar blog. haha…tolerance, sin/sinner…tsk tsk.
1conoclast
108
7:01 pm
swati @ 107…
Shame is not the same thing as Hate. I can’t teach you Moral Science, History AND English!!!!!!!
I’m not accusing you. You’re guilty as charged. You ARE supporting them. I’m just pointing that fact out.
Your insisting that this has anything to do with Muslims isn’t going to make it so. This is about crime & justice.
And 1conoclast never went anywhere. Was here all the time. Dishing out what people were earning.
Swati
109
7:08 pm
The lone ranger.
Breathe easy, You don’t have to be ashamed..rest assured, you don’t know me - at all.
I have condemned the sin…am praising the good work of the sinner now.
1conoclast
110
12:51 pm
swati…
Not lone anymore as you can see for yourself.
Animesh, Almostinfamous, Yaamyn, Ketan and many other rangers whose names don’t immedeately come to mind in the hurry I type with.
Log aate gaye, Kafilaa badhta gaya…
It’s OK. We can be friends who fight often.
Swati
111
3:18 pm
Kaafilay ka sunn ke kaafi puraani yaadein taaza ho gaeen lol. Aapko gussa dilaana bohat aasan hai par I’ll resist. Jo bhi ho, India ke hitt mein ho. Amen.
1conoclast
112
3:52 pm
It’s your area of expertise swati…
Why just India ka hith? Why not manavta ka hith? Prakruti ka?
Swati
113
3:58 pm
Ofcourse..panchi, nadiya, pawan ke jhonke…..kya paaya insaan hokay?
And yes, I enjoy needling u, haha. Will try hard to refrain.
1conoclast
114
4:48 pm
Good.