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Jun192008
Shame on you Bal Thackeray
It was heartening to know that it was the supporters of Hindutva who had exploded the bomb in the theatre. But it was sad to know that it was planted to hurt the Hindus and I am ashamed about it
Instead of exploding low-intensity bombs in Marathi plays and turning themselves into a laughing stock, if Sanatan activists had created a ‘Hindu bomb’ to counter the ‘Islamic bomb’ they would have featured in the list of revolutionaries
When I heard of Hindu’s making bombs, I was happy but the fact that there were used to injure Hindus made me feel ashamed of them
The only way Islamic terror can be tackled was by unleashing Hindu terror. Hindu society can be assured safety only by setting up Hindu suicide squads
Why isn’t any action taken against him? If I were to write the above on this blog, what do you think the reaction of the government would have been? Are their different laws in this country or are we all same under one law?
He can say and do whatever he wants and nobody will take any action. How is a common citizen supposed to derive from this? What a shame!
The views expressed in this post are those of the writer and are not necessarily endorsed by Mutiny.in
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Indian
001
6:06 pm
Terrorist is a terrorist, no matter which religion he belongs to. He should be held under anti terrorism law and punished.
S Jain
002
6:07 pm
HAHA … welcome to India.
I guess you have never heard any of the Imam giving sermons on Friday especially Delhi’s Shahi Imam. Otherwise, you would be calling for the arrest and execution of all Muslim Imams.
Maybe not, since your political correctness and “secularist” credentials wouldn’t allow you to bring out your innate sense of fairness.
The modern mullah
003
6:28 pm
@Chacko,
The constitution of India gives a right to free speech. Unless someones speech instigates violence against a group or causes harm, you can’t arrest them.
Still, I don’t understand what rankles you so much about his speech. I know that many of you pseudo’s have no solution for Islamic terror groups, so why make such a big fuss when someone suggests a solution, however impractical that may be?
Ujj
004
10:10 am
@The modern mullah : Oh so you feel this is a solution. Bravo !
1conoclast
005
2:56 pm
There is an editorial in the TOI today that gives the section of the IPL (Indian Penal Code, just in case…) that this bal-t has violated, under which he can be arrested.
The thing is that this is not the first time he’s done it & this isn’t the first time he won’t be arrested. Arresting him will only make him a hero. Let him talk & devalue himself on his own. He will die soon & be forgotten in a few years. No one will talk about him 50 years later.
Ignore him.
As for solutions to any terrorism, there are many. MM, you just don’t visit those sites. Go to the IM blog, look thru the forums there. You will find a 100 solutions being suggested there. But no, people like you & Jain only want to defend what is wrong by pointing the discussion in another direction.
Just answer this question: Is what he did right or wrong?
aditya
006
5:58 pm
Bal Thakare is fanatic person. He is greedy of fame by hook or crook! Now all wise people criticizing him through out world. But he will happy by seeing it. If he will continue to utter like such absurd matter he will push Hindus towards Hell!
The modern mullah
007
8:26 pm
Just to clarify, I’m not defending him, only speaking about the law.
1conoclast
008
9:22 pm
MM,
TOI edit page from today. Second column from left. It tells you the article of the IPL that he has violated.
The modern mullah
009
12:26 am
1con,
The TOI statement is
“Thackeray’s comments could invite criminal proceedings under Section 153-A of the Indian Penal Code, since it amounts to promoting communal hatred.”
Which means that government could file a case against him under 153-A. This does not mean that the court will declare him guilty, in fact the case will almost certainly be thrown out. Why? Just check 153-A
“(1) Whoever
(a) By words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, promotes or attempts to promote, on grounds of religion, race, place or birth, residence, language, caste or community or any other ground whatsoever, disharmony or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will between different religious, racial, language or regional groups or castes or communities, ”
If you check Bal Thackeray’s statement there is nothing which promotes hatred between Hindus and Muslims, he talks only about ‘Islamic Terror’. If you take that statement as inciting hatred, then speaking out against ‘Hindutva’ forces can also be considered as inciting hatred and majority of the bloggers on Mutiny could be arrested!
1conoclast
010
3:47 pm
MM…
I never said he’d be found guilty. That’s just one of the sad things about our nation. That someone like him has never been found guilty. HOW I wish Indira was alive today…
Anyway, I think we differ because we look at the same thing & see different things. For example:
I seem to pick up words like disharmony & ill-will from the above. You seem to miss them altogether.
I seem to see that his words, either spoken or written, promote the above feelings between communities. You seem to want to exonerate him.
I don’t want to analyse why we see things differently. I’m just glad that I’m on the side of the discussion that I am on instead of the other.
Some wisdom
011
3:48 pm
U amuse me , if written words hurt u so, what about done deeds
thackarey has said much more , this is just tame blabber
what about how the govt and opposition in kerala
the communists and the congress
they want to get Madnis support (convicted in the coimbatore blast case?) and such is the zeal that a convicted terrorist and bombmaker is given ayurvedic massages worth what was it ? Rs45000 or 65000 at govt cost that too in jail
Some wisdom
012
1:19 am
and what about the sikh mini riot today in mulund
they stoned and then they attacked trains and threatened people with swords etc
this is the only way people know to be able to be heard
what a sad state and who is to blame but the secular bunch called politicians
who calculate vote bank loss and gains before taking any necessary action
Pranav
013
2:02 am
For once, chacko, I agree with your post. What a bitch Bal Thakrey has become. Hindu Bomb? WTF? Shame on your for saying and thinking things like these, balasaheb. In fact, no saheb for you any more bal thakrey - not from me.
1conoclast
014
12:44 pm
Thank you Pranav!
The more I interact with you the more my respect for you grows!
some wisdom…
Please don’t confuse this issue. Two wrongs don’t make a right!
Just answer the question. Is bal-t right or wrong in saying what he said?
Pranav
015
12:22 am
Dude, Ofcourse he is wrong! I mean, don’t we have enough terrorism already? if the rss/sena/whatever starts suicide-bombing we WILL make a burnt and torn Afganistan-clone of a what could have been a shining India. We’ll soon probably have a Khalistan, an Eelam, a Kashmir, a North-Eastern Alliance, a Hindutva-desh, and what not - with india limited to just new delhi and NCR, may be?
Bal thakrey is an influential man, and fanatics, we have enough of them, will take him seriously.
Pranav
016
12:32 am
Oops .. I see 1con’s question was for “Some wisdom”
1conoclast
017
12:32 am
Pranav
My question was directed at “some wisdom”. I got you right the first time!
I wish everyone understood the implications of regionalism, separatism, hate, intolerance etc. The country needs a Gandhiji again!
Initially I didn’t think so, but you may be right about the fanatics taking him seriously. SCARY thought!!!
Will not one politician stand up & declare him totally senile??????????????????
Snehal Joshi
018
4:03 pm
Dear Chacko,
What you say is very true. Arrest Bal Thackrey immediately. Ban Shivsena, RSS, VHP and any organisations that works for Hindus. How dare he asks Hindus to be aggressive against tolerant Muslims.
Release Afzal Guru, and the social workers like him dumped in the Indian Jails.
Cancel all the cases against SIMI organisation and its workers. Release all of them. Declare SIMI as social work organisation or an NGO. Whatever is propagated by them should be taught in all schools.
All the mandirs should be brought down and masjids, dargahs etc should be erected in that place.
All the statues of Shivaji Maharaj, Rana Pratap, etc should be demolished and the statues of Afzal Guru, Abdul Gani Lone, Shahid Bilal and all those people who have been termed as terrorist by the Hindus, should be erected on that place.
Once we do this, India will the richest country. Their will be no anarchy, no terrorism, no violence, no chaos. After all whatever wrong is there in our country is due to Hindus, RSS, Shiv Sena and VHP only. Hindus are the most violent people and Muslims are most tolerant people.
aditya
019
6:17 pm
For details of Hindu Terrorism visit—
http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/indianleadersindex.htm
U’ll get toooooooooooooooo much KNOWEDGE.
Then Think sufficiently
1conoclast
020
6:47 pm
Snehal,
Specious reasoning. This discussion is not about whether Afzal Guru is a “social worker” as you choose to put it. This discussion is about bal-t. Let’s stick to that please.
This discussion is also not about whether Muslims are good or bad. It is about whether what bal-t said is wrong and dangerous and potentially ‘explosive’.
Answer that question please.
We will then move to anything else that you may want to discuss.
1conoclast
021
6:51 pm
Also Snehal…
In your last comment there you sounded as crazed & rabid as bal-t. Deviod of logic, just totally misplaced, off-target all consuming passion!
Is that who you want to become? Is ‘that’ who you idolize?????
Snehal Joshi
022
6:59 pm
Yes what he said is explosive, and can put country in anarchy, chaos etc. Thats the reason I am saying put him behind the bars. Ban Shiv Sena. It was more explosive than any of the blasts that have happened in India so far. The lives of Muslims who will get killed if such a thing happens, are more precious than any of the people who have died in such blasts.
And instead give official status to Al Qaeda, Simi, LeT, HUJI. Give special citizenship status to Abu Hamza(he is being deported from UK), Osama, and the likes. Organise there intellectual speeches on every nook and corner of the country. Distribute free CDs and DVDs of thei propoganda through out the country.
Yes I am crazy and illogical like Bal-T. Forgive me for that.
1conoclast
023
7:39 pm
Snehal…
Now that you’ve said it yourself don’t blame any of us if we call you illogical etc.
I’m going with your first 2 sentences (& the last one) and am ignoring the rest of your rant.
Thank you for admitting that what he did was wrong. And thank you for your participation.
1conoclast
024
7:43 pm
Aditya,
Thank you very much. Where did you dig this up from? This is truly very valuable information.
I have also pulled up the same thing from a source more people will call reliable. Here it is:
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fline/fl1904/19040120.htm
Is this the man people want for PM???????????????? Kya FALTU log hain yaar apne desh mein…!!!
Snehal Joshi
025
7:43 pm
Yes sir agreed.
1conoclast
026
8:20 pm
Sarcasm?
Wanna talk about anything else?
Snehal Joshi
027
8:25 pm
No Sir,
How can I, an illiterate, uneducated, unitellectual Hindu stand in any arguments against you, the intellectued, well educated, well mannered SECULAR people.
Nothing more to say. I was just condemning Bal Thackrey. How does he dare to speak in favour of Hindus. Hindus are meant to die like dogs in bomb blasts, and riots. They should learn to remain tolerant no matter how many bombs explode, no matter how many of them die.
1conoclast
028
8:39 pm
Oh ho… Still touchy. Anyway… whenever you feel like it, let me know. I’ll be on my blog. I do want to ask you how you see one set’s propaganda & side with the other’s.
Take Care.
Snehal Joshi
029
8:54 pm
I feel touchy, because I have seen the people, being carried in bed sheets. Because I have seen the ground filled with human blood and flesh. I have expererienced the trauma of parents, children, spouses, roaming from hospital to hospital in search of their dear ones. I have seen the frustration of the people when they were not able to get the information about their loved ones whom they were expecting.
But this is not important. What Bal Thackrey or Raj Thackrey is doing and saying is important. So don’t write about bomb blasts and terrorism. Just write against Bal Thackrey and Raj Thackrey only. Don’t write a word about fanatism of muslims, instead write length and breadth about the hindu fanatics. Don’t write about the SIMI cell in Nagpur which is running madarsass which are teaching hatred to small kids, instead write on Bal Thackrey, that he is advising for Hindu Bombs.
Way to go Mutiny, way to go. You people suck.
1conoclast
030
9:06 pm
Snehal,
Who says that the fanaticism of certain Muslims isn’t written about?
Who says that bom blasts aren’t written about?
Every single newspaper & channel covers all this.
The bjp (who I think you like), rss, shiv sena etc. are always on about how Muslims (& Christians) are the bane of the country.
Everywhere you look you will find people finding fault with madarsas.
In contrast there isn’t a single shred that the mainstream media writes about the propaganda that is taught in rss schools. The rare brave newspaper that does, doesn’t find favour with the reading public! It doesn’t become cause for commotion at all!
People like you NEVER stand up & say that the rss schools are teaching hatred.
Someone’s gotta do it. That’s why blogging is about. Countering mainstream media. The educated people’s voice against popular propaganda.
That’s why WE HAVE to do it. Because you aren’t doing anything about it!
PSA
031
11:31 pm
Shame on Bal T… he is stupid…
aditya
032
11:44 pm
Hindu Bombs to reply Muslim Bombs!!
Hindu terrorists to reply Muslim terrorists!!
It is foolish, baseless argument.
Bites dogs to reply their biting!!!!!????
Why u r Hindu?
Why u r Muslim?
Do u have any stamp on ur head?
Just because ur parents made u so… & without ur choice.
They forcefully made u of their religion.
U surrendered to that family terrorism, helplessly!
U were victim of religion of ur parents without any wise logic.
Forget.
U r grown up.
use ur head.
Humanism is only religion.
If Bal Thakare don’t believe in the Great Humanism—
he is foolest fool.
kick him i.e. his thoughts.
Madness to be buried.
some wisdom
033
2:23 am
i fully agree 1con - and this is not in his support he has his share of good and bad. But he is neither the devil he is made out to be nor the messiah he is portrayed to be - he is just a fallible human - and at one time has done some good for mumbai - what i don’t like is one sided character assassination.
but the sad thing is does thackarey - who is himself a migrant deserve so much attention that too when his brood is thinning?
There are a lot of important things and deserving people that the press can cover.
//He can say and do whatever he wants and nobody will take any action. How is a common citizen supposed to derive from this? What a shame!
count every politician including those who have done heinous things in the same grouping - he is not alone
some wisdom
034
2:34 am
what i think is ur loosing the bigger picture by focusing on the trivial
what is more dangerous - the bal blabber or the silent terrorist and its sleeper logistical cell - simi ?
The politicians of this country are playing with fire and u are being hoodwinked
here the terror threat is rather serious but the police are focussing on slanderers of sonia instead - indian secular politics is more concerned about the political fallout of serving justice like in the afzal case
its taken 13 yrs+ for the 1993 blasts case and what is the result?
forget about the other cases
A secular state is a state or country that is officially neutral in matters of religion, neither supporting nor opposing any particular religious beliefs or practices - is India one when the constitution has articles that are counter to definition ?
is it right to put pressure on the police, and interfere in their work so as to be seen as pro minority - as happened in the recent train bomb blast case?
some wisdom
035
2:42 am
1conoclast
dont be that naive every religious school teach some level of hatred
direct or indirect be it a rss school or a born again christian school or a madrasaa
or even a public school (dont they teach people to hate jinnah?)
every religion always has to show it is superior and more so the monotheistic ones - and hindu or rss ones are reactionary
remember history has told that hindus never fought solely on the name of religion, it was the muslims and christians that did it prominently and still do to an extent.
im hindu and proud to be so what about u all?
some wisdom
036
2:57 am
and snehal
the sena , the congress and ncp use Shivaji or Maharaj as u would like me to call him - all for their political reasons - some for their flag some for him being a Maratha - what have they done named a station airport etc after him - look at the pathetic state the mumbai rail and the airport is in - it is a shame and gives him a bad name.
he was a brilliant tactician who built a kingdom with his own hands and with good advise from learned people like swami ramdas - he was truly secular not like the current bunch - did they build a library or a free a rated public school - or a free management college or a medical school ? - forget that
what is the state of many of his forts - dilapidated and moss filled.. and they want to build his bust on borrowed money ! let them first clear the zopadpattys around the airport
why is thackarey not being prosecuted - do u even need to guess ?
because it benefits the other two parties - they can keep their secular flock to vote for them, thanks to his blabber. and even if they do he will be out in a day and one more case will clog the already overburdened judicial system
ps i wont comment again as this blogs writer is sensationalist
Pranav
037
3:03 am
Some wisdom,
you’re right, “every religious school teach some level of hatred”. but you also said “history has told that hindus never fought solely on the name of religion”, which is also true - but that’s only because Hindus didn’t exist for most part of history.
Hindus as a religious group came only into existence during the british, and more so after various “reform movements” through out the country undertaken to civilize the pagan lot of the Indian nation.
Hindus, or Indians before monotheism invaded, did fight among themselves, in the name of religion. Think the shaiv and vaishnav wars. The aryan invasion theory and the caste system. just read your ancient and pre-mideveal history books. Oh our ancestors did fight, I’m still proud of them and proud to be an Indian.
I am of the opinion that non-monotheists before islamic and christian invasions of India should just be called Indians or Pagans and not Hindus - if modern followers of hinduism are called Hindus.
Remember, not all hindus them were vedic people or worshipped vishnu or shiva. there were different people who believed in different things, sometimes very different from each other. They were all Indians, it is only when the british tried to classify the Indian religions, they created the “Hindu” umbrella term for all non-muslim/christian people of India.
I agree with the rest of your argument on the philosophy of religion, I’ve written some very similar things on another thread. just wanted to clear this little part about hindus.
some wisdom
038
3:21 am
one last time read sanatan dharma and out of india theory too
Pardeep
039
9:41 am
Its really horrible & sad part of India. These stupid Hindu priests are one of the root cause of casteism to still persist. These stupid religious & political leaders of Hindus have ruined India. Few days back Bal Thakarey said only way to fight terrorism is to make “Hindu suicide Bombers”. What a height of stupidity!!
Pardeep
040
9:56 am
Hindus discriminated Sikhs in early eighties from:
THE GALLANT DEFENDER - (Author - A. R. Darshi)
ii) “One Ashok Kumar, a criminal and a Brahman by caste, was shot dead by the Patiala police while he was indulging in hooliganism and arsening in 1983. P.C. Sethi, the then Union Home Minister and Chaturvedi Secretary Home Department of India, rushed to Patiala to find out the facts. But when more than two hundred Sikhs were shot dead by the Police during the Dharm Yudh Morcha, not even a peon of the Central government bothered about them.”
iii) “As many as eight Sikh volunteers were shot dead and many more were injured by the Police on the day of “Rasta Roko Call”. Under pressure of Akali Dal one man Enquiry Commission headed by Justice Dubey (a Brahman) was constituted by the Central Government to hold inquiry into the death of 8 Sikhs besides a Brahmin Ashok Kumar. The Commission shamelessly concluded that killing of eight Sikhs was justified but death of one Brahmin Ashok Kumar was a murder. Is it not a gross discrimination against the Sikhs?”
iv) “One Pawan Kumar Sharma, a notorious criminal (again a Brahmin) of Patiala was found having in his possession 230 high explosive hand grenades. He was let off without registering any case against him. On the other hand a Sikh soldier, Piara Singh, of Ferozepur was accused of stealing a sten gun. Later the sten gun was recovered from the residence of a Hindu soldier but Piara Singh was tortured to death by a Hindu-military officer. Is it not a discrimination against the Sikhs?” v) “Harbans Lat Khanna, a prominent Jan Sangh leader of Amritsar, published provocative posters and displayed them on the walls of the city. The poster said “Duki Tiki Khain Nahin Dent- Sir Te Pagri Rehan Nahin Dent ” Katchh Kara Kirpan Ihnu Ghallo Pakistan. (We shall not allow any rank of the Sikhs to raise their voice, if they do, we shall remove their turbans and eliminate them. If any Sikh who wears Five Ks he should be pushed into Pakistan”. Evidently such provocative and slanderous slogans which were publicly displayed and also shouted in the streets constituted an offence under the Indian Penal Code, for the offenders had criminally intimidated the Sikhs. The language used in the slogan was derogatory and also anti national, but no criminal case was registered against Khanna. Why? Because he was a Hindu. But if the Sikh youths gave a befitting reply to such a provocative slogan criminal cases are registered against them.”
Here is the complete book THE GALLANT DEFENDER - (Author - A. R. Darshi)
http://www.bhindranwale.net/sikhismbooks/the-gallant-defender.html
Pardeep
041
9:57 am
Hindus discriminated Sikhs in early eighties from:
THE GALLANT DEFENDER - (Author - A. R. Darshi)
ii) “One Ashok Kumar, a criminal and a Brahman by caste, was shot dead by the Patiala police while he was indulging in hooliganism and arsening in 1983. P.C. Sethi, the then Union Home Minister and Chaturvedi Secretary Home Department of India, rushed to Patiala to find out the facts. But when more than two hundred Sikhs were shot dead by the Police during the Dharm Yudh Morcha, not even a peon of the Central government bothered about them.”
iii) “As many as eight Sikh volunteers were shot dead and many more were injured by the Police on the day of “Rasta Roko Call”. Under pressure of Akali Dal one man Enquiry Commission headed by Justice Dubey (a Brahman) was constituted by the Central Government to hold inquiry into the death of 8 Sikhs besides a Brahmin Ashok Kumar. The Commission shamelessly concluded that killing of eight Sikhs was justified but death of one Brahmin Ashok Kumar was a murder. Is it not a gross discrimination against the Sikhs?”
iv) “One Pawan Kumar Sharma, a notorious criminal (again a Brahmin) of Patiala was found having in his possession 230 high explosive hand grenades. He was let off without registering any case against him. On the other hand a Sikh soldier, Piara Singh, of Ferozepur was accused of stealing a sten gun. Later the sten gun was recovered from the residence of a Hindu soldier but Piara Singh was tortured to death by a Hindu-military officer. Is it not a discrimination against the Sikhs?” v) “Harbans Lat Khanna, a prominent Jan Sangh leader of Amritsar, published provocative posters and displayed them on the walls of the city. The poster said “Duki Tiki Khain Nahin Dent- Sir Te Pagri Rehan Nahin Dent ” Katchh Kara Kirpan Ihnu Ghallo Pakistan. (We shall not allow any rank of the Sikhs to raise their voice, if they do, we shall remove their turbans and eliminate them. If any Sikh who wears Five Ks he should be pushed into Pakistan”. Evidently such provocative and slanderous slogans which were publicly displayed and also shouted in the streets constituted an offence under the Indian Penal Code, for the offenders had criminally intimidated the Sikhs. The language used in the slogan was derogatory and also anti national, but no criminal case was registered against Khanna. Why? Because he was a Hindu. But if the Sikh youths gave a befitting reply to such a provocative slogan criminal cases are registered against them.”
Pardeep
042
10:08 am
If Hindu is a mean & Muslim is a cruel, then Ill say meanness is much cruel than cruelty.
Pardeep
043
10:15 am
RSS’s poisonous secret agenda
Ref. : (Aajka Surekh Bharat, Nagpur, Oct. 2000, P-44, Original in Hindi, the English version, as follows –
It is universal that RSS’s attitude towards Muslims is hostile ever. RSS treat Muslim as their bitterest enemy. Though RSS express their equality views towards Dalits (for getting political benefits), yet they ever used to conspire against them (Dalits). Some days before, a poisonous RSS’s secret agenda document was leaked by mistake and as such the fact of RSS’s inner vicious mind has been exposed. It is clear from this agenda that as to how RSS want to target and finish Dalits. At first, this agenda was published in “New Age” weekly, of Communist party’s mouth piece, dated 18th to 24th June 2000. The same was also published in second instance in “Lotmat”, Marathi Daily from Nagpur, dated 15th July 2000. The correspondent of this daily, Mr. Shrinivas Khandewale was threatened of life by RSS. A case was also filed against him.
This agenda doesn’t bear any date and signature. The agenda code number is – 411/ND/3003/R.S.S. – C.O.-3.
“Dear missionary brothers – According to this agenda, we are giving you responsibilities and as such we request you to accomplish the same. You memorize the agenda by heart and later on, tear it off. This work must be done confidentially and excellently. There are 34 points, as follows :
1. Collect weapons and explosive as much as you can to kill Dalits.
2. Make harmony with Amedkarites, Dalits, Muslims and make them hostile to Ambedkarite-Mahars. Create hostility among Dalits.
3. Make senior officers as staunch Hindu, so that they may harm Dalits.
4. Order to medical representative (MR) is to provide expired medicines in Dalits, Muslims and Tribal areas to kill them without knowing anybody.
5. Compel Dalits to chant Jai Shriram and Om mantra.
6. Boycott to those who comment against Hindutva. Threat them for.
20. Make pre-planned attacks on Dalits, Muslims and Christians and discourage them mentally.
21, Oppose Mandal commission and confuse people in this regard.
22. Encourage disputes in the middle of Dalits.
23. Damage Ambedkar statues and apply tar on the face of the statues.
24. Regularly read Chanakya’s book.
25. Deceive Muslim and Dalit girls, drink them and take their naked photos.
26. Continue Malnutrition among tribals and make them weak by giving poisonous food.
27. Use gullible and ignorant OBC to have our political gain.
28. Prohibit Dalits and OBCs to enter the Hi-Fi electronic media, i.e. Internet, IT, Computer Technology and other such areas.
29. Take Dalit and Muslim writers in our favor by giving money and insist them to write against Dalits and Muslims.
30. Order our rich and businessmen to exploit Dalits.
31. Keep watch on Dalit organizations and work to divide them.
32. Kill in encounter those who oppose Hindus.
33. Conduct meetings in your middle in regular intervals.
34. Preach Hindutva in chanting slogan of Jai Shriram relentlessly.
(Note.: Memorize the above-said by heart and burn this agenda paper.)
Pardeep
044
10:15 am
SHAME ON RSS
RSS - The “Sangh” What is it, and what is it not?
http://www.geocities.com/indianfascism/fascism/rss_what_is_it.htm
What is the truth about Godse’s RSS connection? … Godse himself had stated before the Court: “I have worked for several years in RSS and subsequently joined the Hindu Mahasabha…” (Godse, Gopal: “May it Please Your Honour: Statement of Nathuram Godse”). The most significant is the revelation by his brother about the last moments of his life: “On reaching the platform they recited a verse of devotion to the Motherland: “Namaste sada vatsale matribhume…” [This is the RSS prayer sung even today - author]. The above is quoted from D. R. Goyal: Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh . Radha Krishna Prakashan. New Delhi. 1979.
1conoclast
045
4:45 pm
some wisdom…
Some points I disagree with.
1. bal-t has never done Bombay any good. Before his rise, Bombay was a peaceful harmonious city. Only after his inflammatory speeches & antics, has Bombay become first riot prone & then blast prone. First anti-South Indian, then anti-North Indian. He & everyone who thinks like him is neo-nazi. They deserve a fate no better than hitler’s.
2. You bring up Afzal but do not mention modi. You bring up the 1993 blasts, but do not bring up the 1992 babri demolition. Why?
3. Public schools do not teach hatred at all. jinnah is portrayed as a misguided figure who was responsible for the partition. We were not taught to hate anyone. Our History books were written very neutrally. rss schools are a totally different matter altogether. Unfortunately, people like you (who are potentially India’s future) do not say or do anything against them. Pranav has already answered your question about intra-Hindu warring.
4. Shivaji wasn’t as secular as you claim. He imposed taxes on non-Hindus as well. Cases against him are required. They will not burden the judicial system. They will give hope to the common man!
1conoclast
046
4:46 pm
Pranav,
Good points made. I wish people would accept facts & learn the difference between history & propaganda.
Thanks.
1conoclast
047
4:48 pm
some wisdom…
The out of India theory was fabricated in “reaction”, in hapless defense, against the Aryan invasion theory. It has more holes than the latter. The truth kinda falls through it.
1conoclast
048
4:53 pm
Pardeep,
THANK YOU! Your comments vindicate my efforts to a certain degree. I am glad to learn that people like you & ADITYA are also around. It makes me believe that we are not alone.
Please hang around the Mutiny & help us, create awareness & fight propaganda & illiteracy. Do come to my blog as well. You will find some posts that will interest you. And I will get to exchange knowledge & ideas with you.
Ketan
049
5:11 pm
Ok..I know whati am going to say is not directly related to the post here, bu ti cannot control it.
The Thackereys are Migrants too!! There. I have said it. Detailed post to follow.
Now about this Hindu Bomb. Has the buddha lost it? What is he saying? And then there are people who are even favouring him? However little, but still favouring.
Muhammed Rashid
050
6:50 pm
India is a democracy. Every body has a right to his/her opinion. If Balasheb wants a Hindu bomb then let him have it. It is his choice and wish. To speak in favour of him or against him is like double horned dilemma. No body knows who is bursting those bombs in recent times in India. Only guess work. Till date no one has been convincingly convicted in any of the post Bombay blast. As it is easy and acceptable to a majority of people police and media blame LeT, HuJi, Suji, Kuji, Buji etc. There is a feeling to believe that Hindu bomb has started its function in the name of muslim bomb.
Balasaheb is talking about Pakistan or Bangladesh but he never utters the name of Daud Ibrahim. When Daud Ibrahims property was being auctioned in Mumbai no body from Sivsena or from Thakrey family came forward to bid. Can any body dare to ask him? When we dont have courage to ask these questions we have to wait fo his bombers
1conoclast
051
6:50 pm
Shame on you Muhammed Rashid!
For appending the “saheb” to his name!
1conoclast
052
7:09 pm
Snehal…
Nahi hai na jawab…?
snigdha
053
5:37 pm
The old man has lost it completely and needs therapy. Period.
Sudarshan
054
5:42 pm
In case you guys were so busy to check google news.
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080054598
Strangely, mutiny is silent on this issue. What happened to all the impartiality being bandied about by the superhumans here?
Snehal Joshi
055
6:34 pm
No Sudarshan,
Mutiny is formed by so called secularist intellectuals. These people can comment only on problems related to Muslims and not problem related to Hindus.
According to them everybody speaks about problems faced by Hindus and none speaks about problems of Muslims. So they are acting as the Saviours of the Minority.
They can write about Hindus just thinking of preparing a Hindu Bomb. They won’t write anything about the actual bomb blasts that are rocking all over the country. There have been so many blasts across the country in recent past, but you won’t find any posts related to it.
So just don’t raise such questions in future.
1conoclast
056
11:26 pm
Snehal…
Is that all you can manage in response…? An insipid, poor response? A reply not even adequately laced with your trademark sarcasm?
You know what they say about sarcasm? They say it’s the poorest form of humour. I’ll take it apply to riposte as well.
Aditya
057
2:42 am
snigdha,
Plz find out psychologists, psychiatrists to treat such abnormal persons.
Aditya
058
2:55 am
Good info
http://www.geocities.com/indianfascism/fascism/rss_what_is_it.htm
please go thru it.
Sudarshan
059
11:09 am
1cono cannot blog about the shit that Muslims do. Because muslims don’t shit. That’s like the National Commission for Women claiming only men are responsible for adultery, and women are always victims. 1cono is competing with them for the Ostrich-with-head-in-sandy-asshole awards.
Sudarshan
060
11:11 am
Sarcasm is the poorest form of humor? I guess we can put this up in your list of 1cono-isms. Adding to “RSS is evil, muslims are good”, “Why can’t we all live as one” and other such mensa-worthy brilliance.
Sudarshan
061
11:19 am
Comment No. 48 shows your opinions. Pardeep’s posts are nothing more than propaganda bullshit, and 1cono considers those as facts and thanks Pardeep for it. What next? Probably a speech defending the Taliban, 1cono? Or one on why Bangladeshi immigrants should all be made legal? Or one on why Barkha Dutt should be given a Nobel Peace Prize? 1cono is more pathetic than I originally thought he was. He’s nothing more than a 17th century mullah with broadband access.
Sudarshan
062
11:24 am
Comment 20.
[i]Specious reasoning. This discussion is not about whether Afzal Guru is a “social worker” as you choose to put it. This discussion is about bal-t. Let’s stick to that please.[/i]
Aren’t you the intellectual linking everything to Gujarat? Why do you want to “stick to the topic now”?
1conoclast
063
4:43 pm
Sudarshan…
You’re a very poor debater. I bring up the fact that people like snehal & you do not have the ability to stand up for what you consider “the other side”. And you’re trying the same accusation on me. Please refer to my response to you on the other forum. I have always amply illustrated my lack of bias.
Please don’t shoot off your mouth until you’re in possession of all the facts!
The quote about sarcasm is not my-ism. It’s an Oscar Wilde quote. The exact one labels it as “lowest form of wit”. Again, you’re not in posession of any facts. I wonder why I am talking to a non-intellectual. Oh! I remember. I am trying to reform them! OK.
I was just appreciating Pardeep’s attempts as they’re in the right direction. With that encouragement he will be able to offer substantial proof alongside in the future. Will that work for you?
What have I been linking to gujarat constantly? Pray, remind me.
Snehal Joshi
064
4:54 pm
Hi 1con…..
Yes, everybody, besides you, and whoever agrees to your point is a poor debater.
Just show the entire debate to anybody that is nuetral and rational and we will come to know who is a poor debater.
Sudarshan
065
4:58 pm
If posts 40 to 43 are “facts” not propaganda according to you, then it only means you are the moron incapable of accepting facts and painting all propaganda suiting your purpose as truths.
The quote about sarcasm is not my-ism. It’s an Oscar Wilde quote. The exact one labels it as “lowest form of wit”. Again, you’re not in posession of any facts. I wonder why I am talking to a non-intellectual.
Heh. Too bad you don’t know that Oscar Wilde was sarcastic when he said that. For that you would need to read his writings. Too much to expect from somebody with his head up his butt.
http://graham.main.nc.us/~bhammel/wilde.html
Oh! I remember. I am trying to reform them! OK.
Just like a cave man looks at the modern man and feels he is more evolved as he has more hair than him.
And just so you know, Flatulence (The kind of wit you live by) is the lowest form of sarcasm.
Sudarshan
066
4:59 pm
Correction : Flatulence (The kind of wit you live by) is the lowest form of wit, not sarcasm.
Pranav
067
6:24 pm
I wonder why I am talking to a non-intellectual. Oh! I remember. I am trying to reform them! OK.
Carrying the white man’s burden? being the englishman in africa?
Pranav
068
6:33 pm
Sudharshan, et.al. (fellow right-wingers)
Let’s for once think what this man you are debating with here, 1conoclast stands for:
“literally, a breaker or destoyer of images. Also has come to mean one who attacks cherished beliefs, traditional institutions, etc. …” that’s the dictionary meaning of the word iconoclast.
He does indeed view himself as Abraham, someone sent by god to destroy society in it’s current form. You cant argue with such people unless they try to be reasonable.
Pranav
069
6:40 pm
1con, I’m still against what thakrey said, however you thanking pradeep for his posts - blatant anti-hindu propoganda. I didn’t expect you to stoop so low. If you believe in secular values, STICK TO THEM, dude!
Sudarshan
070
7:46 pm
Pranav, our man 1cono does not believe in secularism. In post 30, our man talks about why he does not blog about Muslim fanatics. He is “countering mainstream media”. By that he means that any facts that our biased ‘liberal’ (commie) media is occasionally forced to throw up, he will counter with all his might.
Pardeep quotes from http://www.bhindranwale.net/ (post 40)and his bullshit counts as facts for 1cono. And his quotes vindicate the efforts of 1cono to a certain degree (post 48), and makes him believe he is not alone. He also invites somebody who quotes from a Sikh terrorist to hang around Mutiny and help them, create awareness & fight propaganda & illiteracy. And he invites the sikh terrorist to his blog, so that he will get to exchange “knowledge” & ideas with him. According to our intellectual friend, quoting from a Khalistan source is stating “facts”, but pointing out that it is propaganda makes one a “poor debater”. At the same time, post 044 talks about Godse singing a song about the motherland, and that would make him a villain in our 1ntellectual’s eyes.
The sane guys at Mutiny better watch out. 1cono may be booked for sedition and fomenting terror. Take your precautions as necessary.
Hey freedom fighter, here’s something for you to chew on while taking breaks from sharing your LeT knowledge with the Khalistanis.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. - Oscar Wilde quote. And if your brain cells can’t figure that out, yes, he is being sarcastic.
Try reading a bit of Oscar Wilde. You might understand how homo sapiens use sarcasm as the highest form of wit. Probably you could use it to fit in when you step out of that mosque you’ve been holed up in, Elisabeth Fritzl style.
1conoclast
071
10:37 pm
Snehal…
First, you’d be hard pressed to know anyone neutral. Find one & then we’ll see. From my perspective you gave up the battle a long time ago. You retreat from every forum that we’ve had a discussion in; whatever your stated reasons may be…
Sudarshan…
Read my last comment again. I only said Pardeep is in the right direction. I did not say that what he’s quoted are facts. AGAIN, you’re jumping to conclusions. Will you NEVER learn the virtues of Accuracy & Patience?
Your jibes about flatulence do nothing… not even amuse. Did my “Wilde” retort hurt that much? Here’s another one. I can guarantee that you didn’t even know who Oscar Wilde was before my comment. You frantically researched the net & put up whatever little you could muster. Pathetic…
As for your mosque, LeT taunts etc. in your last comment… keep them coming. It just shows you for what you truly are. An extremist, right-wing, hindutva fanatic. The taliban of India. A bal-t worshipper. Go on. The more we know about you the better it is.
You haven’t responded to my gujarat question. Leaving things out on purpose eh? When you can’t back them up? Foot in mouth AGAIN?
1conoclast
072
10:58 pm
Pranav sweetheart…
Don’t lose heart just yet. Have faith. Hear me out.
1. White man’s burden? Yes. Someone’s gotta reform these natives man!
2. Please submit the whole definition if you are attempting it on my behalf. Dictionary.com defines an iconoclast as one of the two things that you BEGIN to quote (but don’t finish); not “also has come to mean” but a separate meaning altogether. My reason for starting my blog with this name was because I subscribe to meaning # 2, and not to # 1. # 2 in it’s full form is:
3. I’ve been on the Mutiny long enough & have seen numerous right-wingers submit links & so-called facts. When Pardeep left a slew of comments that was primarily anti-right-wing, it gladdened my heart that someone else is also taking the fight to the wicked rss!!! And I applauded him. If I SOMEHOW gave the impression that I was endorsing an anti-Hindu stance, you only need to go to Chacko’s MTV Khalistan post & go through my comments there.
This is why I advocate complete research before anyone opens his mouth too wide.
Sudarshan
073
11:48 pm
Pardeep is in the right direction, posting propaganda to be applauded by you. Posts 46 and 48 are good enough proof about what you feel is truth, and what is propaganda.
Pardeep,
THANK YOU! Your comments vindicate my efforts to a certain degree. I am glad to learn that people like you & ADITYA are also around. It makes me believe that we are not alone.
Please hang around the Mutiny & help us, create awareness & fight propaganda & illiteracy. Do come to my blog as well. You will find some posts that will interest you. And I will get to exchange knowledge & ideas with you.
If this is not endorsing the propaganda, you certainly have your english all screwed up.
And too bad your guarantees are about as strong as your secular convictions. “I frantically researched blablabla”. Is that the best you could come up with? Oh I guess this is also part of your “facts” documents. Brilliant. Just brilliant.
It just shows you for what you truly are.
Yeah. Somebody who sees through your “secularism”. Anybody who sees posts 40 to 48 will know how truly secular you are.
PS: http://mutiny.in/2008/06/17/the-taliban-of-india/#comment-54977
1conoclast
074
12:01 am
sudarshan…
Why don’t I have a response from you on this yet?
http://mutiny.in/2008/06/27/secularism-amidst-religion/#comment-55581
Since you speak pidgin, my English hardly needs an endorsement from you! It’s incandescence has already been amply demonstrated to the discerning reader.
Ditto my secular convictions. Please read thru the link above & my response to Pranav in my earlier comment. If you need help understanding what is being said, ask someone.
Anyone who knows what secular is, will know how secular I am. You unfortunately are a right-wing sympathizer & therefore not qualified to hand out secularism certificates.
1conoclast
075
12:09 am
Just saw your PS. What about it? It isn’t self-explanatory if you think it is. Refer to “pidgin” problems above.
Kumar
076
5:50 am
Sudarshan, Snehal Joshi people like 1conoclast are basically so called moderate Muslims hide behind a pseudo names spreading the messages of likes of OBL.
Snehal Joshi
077
2:26 pm
1con……….
I have retreated because I realised that there is no point in banging my head against a stone. It will hurt me only. And by the way we have discussed only on two topics. First one was ‘Is Shivaji and Indian’ and this topic.
Your agreement to the bullshit written by Pardeep, gave enough confirmation to us about your thinking. He has given names and incidences never heard off and you are thanking him for giving those.
So go ahead and congratulate yourself.
Snehal Joshi
078
2:31 pm
And by the way, I haven’t seen any response or post from your side on the Amarnath Shrine Board Issue. You and the so called intellectuals like you are keeping a mum on this.
While you would have been the first ones to post and criticise had been a reverse effect i.e. if government had changed it decision to give piece of land to any Muslim Authority under pressure from VHP or BJP or Shiv Sena.
chacko
079
4:36 pm
@Snehal, if you feel strongly about an issue, why don’t you join the Mutiny and write about it?
Snehal Joshi
080
4:39 pm
@Chacko,
I have already filled in the form and was told that I will hear back in 15 days. Nothing heard thereafter.
1conoclast
081
5:21 pm
kumar… you little pipsqueak… Why don’t you guys first read up before putting finger to keyboard? Please go to the MTV Khalistan post & read the comments there. Specially the links that I have provided.
snehal…
Face facts. You retreated because you didn’t have an answer to “The Question”. As for Pardeep, I have clarified my stance on his twice. You can read thru the comments on this forum again & again until you understand.
Not true. There was recently a wakf board land issue in the press. I personally didn’t comment on it because of two reasons: a) I didn’t know anything about it & b) It didn’t make a difference to me. (Same thing with the Nuclear deal! Why’re you not questioning me on the Nuclear deal? Because you’re Hindu-obsessed?)
Ditto Amarnath. Like I said, the TV media is covering it, and covering it well. Plus I’m not very well informed on the issue, so I’ve refrained from commenting on it. If you want my uninformed take on it, here it is: Any decisions, whether on land or otherwise, if they’re taken to disadvantage a particular community, on purpose, are wrong! If that is what GN Azad’s Govt. has done, they did wrong. If they did something unoffensive & an issue is being made out of it by the opportunistic bjp, then I don’t know. This last bit, by the way, is something I heard on a TV channel last night, & not my personal stance.
Achmed
082
6:28 pm
@MM @Sudarshan and the likes… I left this comment in another post, but got no response…may be u missed it. Read it and let me know if I can be of any help.
I got an idea for you guys…why don’t you guys start a hindu jihadi militant group, I would happily give you guys a crash course on how to safely wear the bomb, walk into any area of your choice and blow up your asses into smoke. Doesn’t that excites you?
For the first time in India, to avenge the dangerous ideas propagated by minority religions and to beat the minorities in their own game, The Hindu’s very own highly trained team of dedicated suicide bombers, the Hindu Sangramis, a rapidly increasing group of young men who want a muslim eye for a hindu eye, who think there is no question of peaceful co-existence of the two religion and who would be the first ones to make terror attack the min anybody tries to do peaceful talking
Think about it…
Muhamamed Rashid
083
12:23 pm
Dear Sirs,
Can you please tell why the so called muslim terrorists are blsting the bombs just before an election when BJP has a stake? Are they stupid to give BJP a chance to get more votes as it has happened in Karnataka. Why they blasted the bomb before Karnataka elections. Couldnot they have waited till little late? There is every posiblity of Hindu militants blasting the bombs, killing innocents and blaming it on muslim jehadis. Hunting two birds with one bullet. Unfortunately our police are so incompetent, they have not been able to catch real culprits in the recent bombings. We peace loving Hindu and Muslims should understand the evil design of anti human forces operating in our society.
AngryIndian
084
7:37 pm
Ahem, moderators sleepin?
warez-bb.org
085
8:42 pm
is all good blocking trains railways motorways and the rest grabs attention, Singhan di anakh is shown ,shows that Singhs can bring whole States to a stand still if messed around with,this is the start……………….
Snehal Joshi
086
8:55 pm
Warez - bb. org
For your information only the Mulund Area was affected by your so called bravado. The rest of Mumbai, leave alone the state, was running smoothly as everyday.
And by the way, why should a city or a state brought to a stand still due to a fault of just few men. After all the sikh that died was killed by the Dera Saccha Sauda Guards. Whats the fault of the normal public in it. And yet the sikhs were attacking the moving trains, hitting stones to buses, brandishing swords on roads etc. Isn’t it wrong. If you wanted to protest, and if you have the so called gutts, why don’t you attack the ministers who still haven’t arrested the Dera Saccha Sauda Chief. Why trouble the common people. Is this what you called your Valor.
Also don’t talk about your bravado. Because you people were rioting only till the police and rapid force took action. As soon as they started hammering you, all the agitation and sikhs seem to disappear in thin air.
1conoclast
087
1:51 am
The marathi terrorists have gone & now we have sikh terrorists…!
Will someone please close the comments column on this one? 87 comments is quite enough to satisfy any author.
1conoclast
088
1:53 am
snehal…
While I agree with the rest of your statement, one thing that warez says is important: Why did the cops not take action against the rioting mns crowds? Is it because the police is too strongly maratha? Whatever the answer is, the question will still remain.
Snehal Joshi
089
11:26 am
Who says the police didn’t act. It was only the first few hours that police didn’t act, which has similarity with Sikh Incident too. After that MNS people were also beaten up and arrested as were the Sikhs. Many of the MNS rioters are still in Jails in Nashik and Mumbai.
I hope you agree with this.
1con…..
When I had raised the Afzal Guru issue you had told me to stick to the topic. And where is this topic going now. How is the sikh issue related to the original post by chacko.
1conoclast
090
1:51 pm
Snehal,
It’s relatively fresh in my mind. The mns rioting went on for days without police intervention. Can you give me a news link that talks about the police swinging into action in a few hours?
Plus, the police’s action means less to me than the educated, liberal Indian’s opinion. I am more interested in what you think of these types.
Yes, I’d requested you to stick to the topic. Unfortunately, the kind of audience that the Mutiny attracts is very “varied”. Some of them just don’t get it, which is what explains how the comments forum is often so different from the main post! I thank you for trying to stick to the topic.
If you’ve noticed, I’ve requested Chacko to close the comments on this post, but Chacko has his own views on comments forums.
He seems to believe that the Mutiny is a place where everyone should have their say. I only semi-agree with him here, but I am only a contributor & commentor yet. I am not on the edit team yet, so I have limited say. Though I have a feeling that Chacko does listen to his audience, so I’m hoping that this one will close sometime soon. Let’s see.
Do you want me to add you as a contributor to my blog while you’re waiting for the edit team at the Mutiny to respond? Sandy who usually does this is on a sabbatical.
Muhamamed Rashid
091
2:26 pm
Discussion is going on on the aftermath of any incident. The question Chacko has raised is totally different. He asks what the common citizen derives the conclusion out of the inaction in the part of the state to rein in the Emperor of Mumbai/Maharashtra.
In the last 40 years different governments have appeased him and made him an icon. When he was not an icon the then govet could have stopped him. But vote bank and appeasement politics has made him what he is now. Now if the govt intervenes things will totally go out of its controll. As I had said earlier the situation is like double horned dilemma. Either way govt will lose. The people in power are hand in gloves with him also. At personal level non is his antagonist. Privately all follow his line. After all it is vote and power.
Balasaheb Thackray is not that bad either. During the Gujrat roits probably he was the person who stopped Mumbai to go the same way. Atleast his public and private posture is same but his so called opponents have two faces, one public and one private. Unfortunately he is the victim of his own making. He also cannot leave his image as saviour of hindu community in the face of his prestige, impending election, Raj Thackray’s challenge in his ripe old age.
So far the citizens are concerned they have to read between the lines. They should think themselves what is good and what is bad. Conscience should be given preference over rhetoric.
Hindu terrorism and Muslim terrorism are wrong and highly condemnable. Unequivocally we have to denounce both terrorism. Innocents are the victims. If look into entire history of mankind we find that nature has the ultimate say though some people suffer for a particular time period.
1conoclast
092
3:06 pm
Oh do shut up Muhamamed Rashid…!
Stop calling the bal-t, saheb first, then we’ll begin to listen to you!
Snehal Joshi
093
3:55 pm
1con…..
why do you want to impose your views on others. why can’t he write the name he prefers for him.
aren’t you going the same way, as Shiv Sena, as it also forces people to say Mumbai instead of Bombay. You are the first ones to criticize them then. Is it not double standards.
Muhammed Rashid
094
4:19 pm
Respect begets respect. Hatred begets hatred. In a country where Gandhi is no more there is atleast Munnabhai series of films.
1conoclast
095
9:57 pm
Snehal,
You’re right. In trying to fight them so hard, I’ve become like the ss. Thanks for the warning. I shall refrain.
Rashid,
I agree in theory. I can’t bring myself to practise it though. But this is a personal weakness.
Snehal Joshi
096
12:13 pm
1 con…..
Now that you have admitted your mistake, let me admit mine as well. Whatever Bal Thackrey said is utter crap and will lead our country to a total chaos. I am writing this seriously and not sarcastically as you think.
But at the same time I really get scared when I start thinking about the rate at which bomb blasts are taking place through out the country and the governments inaction towards it.
Each time the bomb blasts happen, there is hue and cry on all the channels. There are discussions held on prime time with all the whos who of the Indian Politics. The opposition blames the govt and vice versa. The central govt just runs away from its duty by saying that they had warned the central govt according to the intelligence reports. The state govt in turn says it is not possible to give security to each and every prominent place???????????
It feels like each day we are playing a blind on our life. If you return home safely you have won the game.
Just after the few hours of the bomb blast some hard statements are made from the govt like the culprits will be caught and punished, Ab aar paar ki ladai hogi, etc etc. After a few weeks the govt, the media, the people everybody forgets about it till the time again terrorists strike at some other place, killing the common public over there. What we see is the culprit of the attack on the parliament Afzal Guru is pardoned from his death sentence just to get hold of the vote bank.
Recent example is the Jaipur blasts. None of the culprits have been caught. I had heard about detention of a few people but I am sure those would be some local goons taken into custody just for showing the media and the people that we are doing something. No major arrests have been made.
As somebody has pointed out in one of the comments, we really don’t know who all people are doing this. The normal public is made to believe that the Muslim Terrorist are behind this just because they assume it should be true or it is easy to make them believe that.
If this goes on for a few more years, I am afraid the country is leading towards chaos and anarchy, whether Bal Thackrey succeeds in making Hindu Bombs or not. Please note my anger is not against any community but the govt’s inaction and the frustration that my life is vulnerable due to it. I can be killed anytime, anywhere in any of such bomb blasts as per the wishes of some terrorists. As I had said in one my posts, I have seen people being carried out in bedsheets after the 11th July Mumbai Blasts. I am not able to forget that scene.
Muhammed Rashid
097
12:59 pm
Fortunately the discussion is coming to its logical end. At least two people have come to agreemnet that wronf is wrong. We must condemn what is wrong. But how to know what/who is wrong? For this we have to read history with an open mind. We must read all the scriptures. The Quran, The Gita, The Bible, and ofcourse the great philosophers of the past till date beginning from Socrates down to Noam Chomsky. The general Public cannot do it all. The sane intellectual class can do it by reading and disseminating in news papers, TVs, Radios.
We have to know justice. How this justice is to be given to all the citizen of India. Dont we know result of mis carriage of justice in Mahabharata. Kauravas were majority and powerful and played with justice. Now if the leaders preaching same scriptures will do same mistakes then who will suffer and who is to be blamed.
If we open the mind’s eye slighty we can know that the reason for muslim terrorism is only miscarriage of justice. I condemn all types of terrorism where innocent life and property is destroyed. But if you put your own timid pet cat in a room and start torturing, it will also attack you.
In the times when the philosophy of “Either you are with us or against us” the premier muslim seminary of Deoband in India has given a ruling against terrorism.
I hope and pray that both Hindu and Muslim rabble rousers do give chance to peace.
1conoclast
098
6:05 pm
Snehal,
That was surprisingly easy! In the future, whenever we disagree, I will quickly make a mistake, then admit it & in the bargain get you to admit yours!
Jokes apart, I too understand the gravity of the issue. You’re not the only one living with that threat. All of us are.
If you’re frustrated, sit back & think about what people like you & me can do about it. Can we talk about it? Can we blog about it? Can we make a film about it & circulate it to news channels, vlogs etc? Can we spread the message of peace? In whatever small way we can & hope that it’ll become a bigger & bigger phenomenon? Can we stop watching stupid movies & watch movies like Khuda kay Liye, Dharm, The Message etc? And ask other people to watch them too?
Rashid,
I pray with you too.
Pranav
099
6:16 pm
“If you’re frustrated, sit back & think about what people like you & me can do about it. Can we talk about it? Can we blog about it? Can we make a film about it & circulate it to news channels, vlogs etc? Can we spread the message of peace? In whatever small way we can & hope that it’ll become a bigger & bigger phenomenon?”
In China (and communist countries), you can’t!
1conoclast
100
6:46 pm
Pranav…
WTF?
Are you talking about what the topic is? Or are you digressing TOTALLY from the topic?
Ajit Patil
101
2:59 pm
Bal Thakeray life is over and near to his natural death. So he tells more madnes, Hindu Bomb, and Hindu balls.
Just ignore him.
The Layman
102
6:20 pm
It was heart warming to see a person accused as extreme right wing (snehal) and a person accused as a pseudo secular(1conoclast) coming to terms in the end. Both have good intentions for the country but this was revealed after 98 comments. This article and the comments section serve as a good lesson to all those good willing Indians who in their desperation to save the country from the chaos that it is in, forget that ,sometimes, others also voice their opinions with the right intentions. let’s try to stick to our sanity even when emotion gets the better of us. I enjoyed the article, and more so the comments. I know this comment has no direct relationship to the article. But wanted to appreciate all those patriots who have shown the courage to voice their opinion and even end it in a fairly good note. If this cooment doesn’t serve any purpose, let it be deleted by the moderators. Long live India!
Gagan
103
12:38 am
First, Allah created the Light; then, by His creative power, from the one Light, He made all living beings. Therefore, who can say who is good and who is bad when we are all from the same source??
Snehal Joshi
104
11:46 am
@gagan
are you saying that I(Snehal Joshi) is equally good or bad as Osama Bin Laden, George Bush, Abu Hamza, Yasin Malik, Shahid Bilal and the likes becasue it is one Almighty who created us. Sorry my friend I beg to differ in that case.
1conoclast
105
12:35 pm
Gagan… I differ with you as well.
Snehal… I was wondering why you didn’t add the names of other villians of our time along with the ones you mentioned. Names like godse, “mad-dog advani”, narendra modi, dara singh, babu bajrangi, vinay katiyar etc…?
Snehal Joshi
106
1:23 pm
1con……
Again matter of perception. They might be villians in eyes of some people the people I have named are curse to humanity.
1conoclast
107
2:07 pm
And the ones I have named are not…???
C’mon Snehal… Don’t disappoint me just as I was beginning to develop faith in you as a human being…!
Both the ones you’ve mentioned or I’ve mentioned are blots on the face of humanity. The murder or incite murder, they divide people instead of uniting them, they spread war instead of peace. These are sins in any religious book, not just the ones you or I follow!
Pranav
108
6:39 pm
One man’s villain, 1conoclast and Snehal, is another man’s hero.
I agree with Gagan - All are god’s creation.
Snehal Joshi
109
6:51 pm
@Pranav, 1con… and Gagan,
On giving it a second thought I do seem to agree with Gagan’s statement.
After all there are people who consider Osama, Shahid Bilal etc as heroes. There are people who consider Gandhiji as the biggest Villian of India. For some people Bal Thackrey is their only saviour and is literally worshipped and for some he is the biggest goon on the earth.
So different people have different point of views and different ideologies. Their villians and heroes change accordingly.
But still Osama and me equal is just too much to digest.
The Layman
110
7:33 pm
You don’t have to digest it Snehal.
For it’s not by virtue of birth that we are judged as human beings, are we?
By birth all are equal..Muslims, Hindus, Christians, terrorists, naxalites, extremists..everyone.
But it is the deeds that make us good or bad. Now different people have different views on good and bad. So how do we judge goodness or evil? I think it should be judged against the rules and values of civilization. Civilization has taught us not to be barbaric. Civilization has taught us murder is wrong. Civilization has enabled man to progress.
Of course revolutionaries have succeeded in over throwing governments, imperialistic regimes, dictatorship etc. by killing other people. But I wonder whether anything has ever been achieved through the killing of people. India won the wars against pakistan, at what price?
US became a superpower, but are its citizens safe?
Anyways, I will not be able to prove successfully that war is never a solution. There are so many revolutions which has helped man to progress (which also involved killing of people).
Yet I believe that a person who commits murder, incites hatred and war, makes this world a less safer place can never be considered an equal to one who loves peace, does good and wants the world to be devoid of wars and evil. Not because of any religious reasons but simply because of humanitarian considerations.
Certainly, you and Osama Bin laden are not equals whatever the reasons for his actions.
My two paisa!
Pranav
111
7:38 pm
Recommended movies:
!1 Gandhi
2. Schindler’s list.
Pranav
112
7:39 pm
Both are on youtube, free for anyone to watch.
1conoclast
113
3:44 pm
snehal…
My dislike knows no bias. I hate all villians equally. I would piss on an osama as easily as I’d shit on a godse. and the rest too of course.
This one man’s meat is an other man’s poison concept only seems true. To j.w. booth’s co-conspirators, he was a hero & Lincoln a villian. So do we leave it at that or do we examine it a little more? Upon further examination it is revealed that booth was a cold-blooded bigoted unstable murderer who was against abolishing slavery. Lincoln on the other hand was a believer in God’s word: All men (black or white) are created equal. Does that justify the stand that booth’s sympathisers took?
Pranav…
Another few to add to your list:
http://1conoclast.blogspot.com/2008/07/4-movie-recommendations.html
Nikhil
114
11:16 pm
Wow, this c**t 1cono can’t ever stop barking, can he?
Snehal Joshi
115
12:36 pm
1 Con……..
My dislike knows no bias. I hate all villians equally. I would piss on an osama as easily as I’d shit on a godse. and the rest too of course.
Agreed. But if all people thing in the same way then there would not have been any wars, any violence any riots and the world would have been a great place to live. But the Irony is everybody’s thinking, values and heroes change according to circumstances he/she/they are in.
India has the largest number of Muslims and they are treated more fairly that they are in Pakistan and yet many of them feel that India is not their country. For many Hindus, Bal Thackrey, Narendra Modi, L K Advani etc are their heroes because they think that these people can only save them from the Muslim Fundamentalist.
The greatest villian Hitler as well is admired by many.
So dear friend according to you thinking you are abosultely right when you make the above statements. For me the terrorists like shahid bilal, azam cheema, dara singh, babu bajrangi are greater villians.
1conoclast
116
1:35 pm
Snehal…
This is not true Snehal. This is the rhetoric that bal-t’s damaged brain dreamed up. Muslims who feel that India isn’t their own country are the same as Sikhs who feel that India isn’t their own country as Maoist naxals who feel India isn’t their own country as ULFA that feels India isn’t their own country.
Why do all these people feel that India isn’t their own country despite choosing to stay here for centuries? Why do some Sikhs & Mulsims & Dalits & the North East feel let down? Do they feel that they are discriminated against? Do they feel that the majority community is not truly secular in that respect?
This isn’t about Pakistan. This is about all Indians being made to feel at home in India. It is about them being made to feel secure in India. ONCE THAT HAPPENS INDIA WILL BE A VIOLENCE-FREE, RIOT-LESS, GREAT PLACE TO LIVE IN!!!
I made this point solely for the Hindus who believe that Hindu Fundamentalists like bal-t, advani, modi etc. are false heroes. These are the people who CAUSE THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!
And I’ve met people who admire hitler. They’re all bal-t fans, people who’re shiv sena sympathisers! They deserve no respect & their thoughts deserve no respect either! How can one admire someone who killed over a million jews in unspeakable ways? It’s the same thing as admiring an osama or a simi today! These people are borderline mentally ill cases!
1conoclast
117
1:40 pm
WOW! This c**t nikhil can write a straight line in English, can he? Despite his hindutva schooling? Fairly impressive.
Nikhil… aren’t you fighting an immense internal battle? Having to express yourself in a language that you’ve been taught is a stigma from foreign rule?
It must be tough for you…
I on the other hand am motivated to speak in the favour of what is right.
A lot separates us my friend. Do not even attempt to hang around in the same forum…
Pranav
118
3:03 pm
hah! 1con, it is because of liberals like you who are at the helm of our politics we have liberationists. You say we should make “them” feel at home. by them you refer to minorities - those who have lived here for centuries.
Dude, they ARE home. it’s because you - along with the rulers of the country - who call them “them”, they are seen as different people, a burden on the majority.
They are us. one of us. If India is one country, all people of India are part of one country. Let them all live as brothers, not has hosts and guests.
BTW, thanks for those movie recommendations. Going to landmark in a few, hope to pick up a DVD of the message.
Pranav
119
3:05 pm
I have no idea why I wrote “liberationists” in the earlier post. what I meant was “seperationists” it’s probably firefox’s fault. seperationist is a word with a red-line (wrong spelling) corrected automatically to liberationist. Bah..
1conoclast
120
3:19 pm
Pranav,
LOL on the firefox bit! I get your point, but I think you’re misunderstanding me & the issue. I am not calling them “them”. My calling them “them” is not what is responsible for them feeling the way they do. I agree with you. They are at home. Just like the Sindhi Hindus are at home in Pakistan. Do they feel discriminated against? Some of them do. What do they do? Some of them ignore it, some of them protest I’m guessing against being mistreated in their own home. In any case there are protests on the Internet about their plight all the time as you & I have seen!
The question isn’t whether I addressed them as “them”. The question is why are they being made to feel discriminated against. It’ll take a joint effort from all of us to change things. The right wing has to shut it’s mouth & not make them feel threatened. The politicians who use their insecurities to drive fear into their hearts need to be shut up as well. But if 1 is accomplished, the need for 2 will be redundant. No?
As for the message, you may not find it at Landmark. Try your local pirated DVD wala. As him for an uncut print.
Snehal Joshi
121
3:30 pm
1Con…..
I really fail to understand why the muslims, believe me there are many of them, still don’t feel India is their country. Muslims have been treated better in India. You must be knowing how the Muhajirs have been treated/still are treated in Pakistan. The shia/sunny riots in Pakistan have been more bloodier than hindu/muslim riots. India has had muslims on all the prominent posts. Moreover the congress’s appeasement policy has ensured that they get whatever they want, a muslim personal law board, a change of rule for the loud speakers on the masjids etc. And still we have organisations like SIMI, HUJI and so on.
It is due to such organisations and people that the people like advani, bal thackrey and narendra modi have grown up to the stature that they are. I remember when the cartoon controversy had errupted, there were riots in Indian cities. Is is justifiable. I mean what was the point rioting in Indian cities when India had no connection whatsoever with that cartoon. Then the hindu organisations take the advantage of this start istigating the hindu crowd.
1conoclast
122
4:13 pm
Snehal Yaar…
Yahi toh baat main samjhane ki koshish kar raha hoon!!!
No Muslim feels that India is not their country. They all feel that India is their own country. The’re just upset by the accusations hurled at them in their own country, their loyalty & patriotism constantly being under the scanner, their being subjected to hate from the rss & leaders like advani & bal-t! Apne hee desh mein unhein lagta hai ki unhein sataya ja raha hai! Unko satana bandh karo, woh bas itna chahte hain. They’re happy to be part of the mainstream, get an education, get a job, work hard, retire peacefully, not be looked at as different by others. Do you get what I am saying?
On the other hand some Hindus themselves are beginning to ask these days whether India is their country or not, whether they’re being treated fairly in thier country? WHY are we not questioning those Hindus who ask these type of questions? This is the right wing crowd mind you.
I’ll tell you an incident from my late teens. I was celebrating one of India’s rare (in those days) wins over Pak, when a boy asked me with earnest surprise, “Why are you celebrating? Aren’t you Muslim?”. He really meant it, he really believed that something was amiss here. I of course took offence and told him that India was my country & I would celebrate every win of theirs!
Why should anyone with a Muslim sounding name be subjected to questions like this? This is only a small example. Over the years many such incidents & worse must have happened to many Muslims. That is why today, you find that there’s a problem. If you want the problem to end, leave them alone. But it’s too much to expect the CIA-backed rss to do that. They want India to remain as unstable as possible. Ever think along those lines?
Snehal Joshi
123
4:38 pm
Are bhaiji 1 Con…….
Ab main usi wakye ka dusara pahlu batata hoon. Whenever Pakistan use to win the cricket matches against India, I myself have seen crackers being busted in Muslim Mohallas.
There have been many instances in my home town in my childhood where the Muslims have started riots on minor issues. This all stopped after 1992 when the hindus gave a befitting reply to them. This was the riot after the demolition of the mosque.
Have you been to the mumbra slum or a muslim dominated slum. You will see Pakistani flags over there.
If such are the activities of these people then obviously their loyalty will come under the scanner. But as you said this was being done by the Hindu Right Wing organsiations. Then why are they targetting innocent people by bombing trains, buses, firing randomly at a mandir, bombing at their own mosques. Somebody has to be real crazy or insane to do such a ghastly act.
1conoclast
124
7:12 pm
snehal…
If you were to say that some Muslims burst crackers & some were genuinely upset at an India loss, THAT would be a BALANCED point of view!
If you are suggesting that because SOME Muslims burst crackers, ALL of them should bear the brunt of a right wing hindutva backlash, then I will just say you are stupid.
There have been numerous incidents where Hindus have been caught selling India’s secrets to the ISI in Pakistan. Or supporting extremists. Should everyone start assuming that EVERY Hindu is a traitor because of 2 or 3 examples???? Should ALL Tamil Hindus be targeted because a few of them harboured LTTE militants?
Who started a riot is a discussion that will go on forever. One will claim aggravation, the other incitement & so on. I have met enough people on web forums who claim that all the riots were instigated by Hindus. I don’t believe them AND I don’t believe you!
As for the “befitting reply” language you are using, this is exactly the reason why the extremists resort to exploding bombs & killing innocents. Yeh jawab dene ki mentality sirf extremists ki hoti hai…! Soch samajh ke bola karo yaar…
What you see in any Mozi slum are not Paki flags. That to my understanding is supposed to be an Islamic symbol & because Pak is an Islamic state, the symbols match. Declaring that one is Muslim IS NOT the same thing as declaring that one is Paki!!!
Do you know that in Kerela 3 rss-types were arrested for planting a bomb at their own office. The objective? To create more anti-Muslim feeling. This was in the papers. I will provide you with a link if you want it. So who says that only Muslims are extremists? Your right-wing hindutvis are extremists too! So should I ASSUME that ALL Hindus are of an extremist mentality???
Unfortunately I cannot because I know both sides very well, very closely. I have seen primarily the good from both sides. If you too were of mixed parentage, you’d have realized that. Unfortunately, Nature denied you that privilige. But maybe you can give your kids that advantage.
The stance you take isn’t very far away from the ghastly acts you’re decrying. I agree with you there though: Only crazy/insane people do such things. And bal-t for appreciating all this is exactly that! Right?
Snehal Joshi
125
7:43 pm
Although my comment would have suggested it, but I am not saying that all muslims are traitors or anything of that sort. I am against those who are against India, against humanity.
Actually we are saying the same thing but in different tone.
As much it is a truth that for the deeds of few muslims all the muslims should not be targeted, it is equally true that for the actions of the right wing hindu organisations, innocent hindus should not be harmed.
I don’t know when/how it started, but this is going on, but I have seen both communities saying that they have not being given a fair deal. Each one thinks that the govt is appeasing the other community. I am hindu and so I feel, from my point of view, that yes the govt is appeasing the muslims for vote bank.
1conoclast
126
8:04 pm
snehal…
na re meri jaan. The Govt. isn’t trying appeasement. It depends on how you look at it. If you try & uplife the weaker sections of society, you’re accused of indulging in vote-bank politics, being leftist, pseudo-secular etc. All these terms have been used/invented by the right that wasn’t in power for many many decades & frustrated. Then they started their own vote bank politics (Hindu hith ki baat etc…) & started making political progress. By corrupting the country totally!!!
If you try & be tough & unbiased, you’re accused of being an upper-class Brahmanical party. If you try & supress terrorism with an iron hand, you’re assassinated like Indira Gandhi was. So whatever you try, there’ll be opponents. The thing to do in this case is to focus on what is correct & stay away from violence. THAT is most important.
If you look around you today, all you will see around you is violence. Gujjar violence, gujarat violence, jaipur blasts, bombay violence, anti-dalit violence, dalit violence. See, each one of them deserve to be heard, BUT NONE OF THEM HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE VIOLENT. That is why th Govt. tries to hold talks first instead of pushing things through. Pushing just leads to more violence. I think…
http://1conoclast.blogspot.com/2008/07/demise-of-union.html
And yes, deep down you & I agree I think.
sunshine
127
10:41 pm
Have you heard of freedom of speech in a democracy?
Chacko
128
10:57 pm
@Sunshine.
Sure. Just like MF Hussian.
Snehal Joshi
129
11:31 am
guys sorry for starting the discussion again. but couldn’t resist after reading chako’s comment.
@chacko,
you have hit the bull’s eye. the freedom of speech, expression etc is for everybody. It is for MF Hussain, and equally for Bal Thackrey, right?
Now tell me, how come, whatever shit that insane draws comes under freedom of expression, and whatever Bal Thackrey, Narendra Modi, Advani, Togadia say comes under secular speeches.
If MF Hussain has freedom of expression, why doesn’t he dare to draw the paintings of Prophet or any Islam Saint, Jesus, or of any Sikh Guru in the same state as he paints the Hindu Gods. Coz he knows if he does that he will be reduced to ashes.
The same thing goes for Tasleema Nasreen. If everybody has the right of expression why is her book LAJJA banned in some of the states in India. When she was attacked in Hyderabad Press Conf, when she was asked to leave West Bengal and ultimately India, there were just some shouts. But when Hindus attack MF Hussain or any other painters art exhibition, there such a hue and cry as if the world is endangered by those activities.
Chacko
130
1:36 pm
Snehal, I think you have answered your question yourself. If you beleive in the rule of law, then discard violence and call for violence.
MF Hussian’s paintings were not violent nor calling for violence. Bal Thacker called for hindu suicide bombers and attacks against a commuinty. I think there is a difference. If you can’t figure our this difference, I don’t think there is any point carry on this dialogue.
Snehal Joshi
131
2:06 pm
Hi Chacko,
MF Hussain’s paintings do call for violence. And this is the reason he does not dare to pain obscene paintings of Dieties of other religions. He knows for sure, if he does that, he will be burnt alive or there will be fatwa issued against his head.
Its the same case as violence against Taslima Nasreen, the danish cartoonist and sulman rushdie.
Chacko
132
2:25 pm
No Snehal, MF Hussian’s paintings don’t call for violence. It’s his painting, he can paint whatever he wants. If you are hurt by it, register a complaint. There is no justification for violence against gallaries.
And on what baisis do you call MF Hussian’s paintings offencive? What about the sulptures of Khajuraho? Why don’t go around blowing that up like the taliban in afganistain?
Is your (I mean “YOU” - not all Hindus) faith so weak that you get upset by a painting?
Snehal Joshi
133
3:34 pm
Chacko,
For your information, the sculptures of Khajuraho are not of Hindu Gods, whereas the paintings which that insane, mad painter draws are of Devi Saraswati, Bharat Mata etc.
I have tremendous faith in my religion but that does not mean that anybody can say or draw anything about it.
As MF Hussain has the right to draw whatever he can, so does taslima nasreen and so does that danish cartoonist, so does sulman rushdie. So why do the muslims get offended on that and why does nobody raise the voice against them. I have seen a very few people condemning the attacks on Taslima Nasreen but none for the violence against the danish cartoonist or against salman rushdie. The muslims rioted in India when the cartoon controversy started. Nobody of the socalled secular people condemned it. And thats the part I hate most about the so called secularist people. They can only see and condemn the violence by Hindus, whereas they just turn a blind eye towards the violence by Muslims. It is termed as their anger over their hurt sentiments. Hindu Violence is termed as genocide, secularism, fascism and what not.
Pranav
134
7:55 pm
it’s because hinduism is a set of open-minded, liberal religions, Islam, on the other hand is a conservative faith. Which is why Hindus should not offend muslims. On the other hand, because Hinduism has a history of being open-minded, there is no reason for real hindus to get offended by anything. neo-hindus, of course are another story.
Pranav
135
7:59 pm
BTW, I couldn’t get “The Message” At Landmark, didn’t really find a pirated DVD wallah around where I am, will need to go to the station for that, so I will save it for later.
Meanwhile, I saw two very hillarious movies that I want to recommend to everyone (they are somehow related to the topic at hand)
“Harold and Kumar go to the white house” and, more importantly “Harold and Kumar escape from Guantanamo bay”
Enjoy!
Snehal Joshi
136
8:13 pm
“On the other hand, because Hinduism has a history of being open-minded, there is no reason for real hindus to get offended by anything. neo-hindus, of course are another story.”
Pranav, does that mean if anybody says bad things about your parents your loved ones, you would not do anything to him. Being liberal has cost us dearly in past. We have been ruled first by Mughals and then by Britishers due to such attitudes only.
If this is your idea of being liberal then I would say it is equal to cowardinace. It is this liberal attitudes of hindus which is giving more courage to the terrorists who are killing people at will and nobody bothers to do anything. There is some sort of anger for a few weeks and then again everybody forgets about it till there is another blast.
Pranav
137
8:36 pm
Tell me, Snehal, Did Gandhi every do anything violent towards people who hated him, sent him to prison?
No.
Did he win his battle? Yes!
The only way to make religious extremists realize that they are losers comes from Gandhi. An eye for an eye makes the whole world squinted.
The Modern Mullah
138
10:11 pm
@Pranav,
Gandhi never kept quiet about British atrocities. He openly talked against them, organized rallies and boldly boycotted them. If Gandhi were alive today he would have boycotted M.F Hussain, allowed no one to view his paintings. I don’t see any Hindu doing that either.
Pranav
139
10:36 pm
@MM
Exactly! That is just what I am saying needs to be done. and If moderate muslims don’t participate in these peaceful protests, let hindus and others not buy from their businesses. Terrorism won’t exist without funds. Na rahega bomb, na hoga bombing.
Muhamamed Rashid
140
12:40 pm
@Pranav
Your idea of not buying from muslims sounds very nice. To begin with stop buying oil from the middle east. Big money is there.
@Snehal
With due respect to you and to Hindu religion, I personally and Islam which I know do not approve of sketchings. Islam does not approve of paintings of human form. Otherwise there would have been photos and idols inside mosques.
On the otherhand Hinduism and many other religions allow paintings of their Gods n Goddesses in myriad forms. This has encouraged MF Hussain to paint only Hindu forms though he is not correct Islamically. If you are offended by his paintings then why do you worship Shiva linga, which is a phallus protruding from a female genitalia. Is not offending to millions of devotees who come to worship it? Visit Khajuraho, Bhubaneswar, Puri and you will find most of the temples adorning nude statues. Are not these offending? What is good for the goose should be good for the gander. Please shed some light.
Lucknow
141
1:25 pm
@Muhamamed Rashid
For starters, let US sell wheat to OPEC $1500 per KG.
We should form a grain cartel and monopoly.
We can go back to horse carriage but OPEC eat their camels and drink oil.
Muhamamed Rashid
142
2:34 pm
@Lucknow
Try your luck now with only rice as major OPEC country Saudi Arabia is a net exporter of wheat but importer of rice, that to premium Indian basmati rice. Our ministers ask them for cheap oil and their ministers ask for rice. Ha Ha
The Modern Mullah
143
7:10 pm
@MR,
Linga means a symbol of lord shiva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam) and if it reminds you of something else it shows your perverted brain. Regarding M.F Hussain, he has admitted his mistake. When you use sacred symbols in paintings, the context has to be reverential. You can’t use them to depict sex with animals. Think that chapter has closed, he made a mistake and hurt people, he apologized,thats it.
Lucknow
144
7:28 pm
HA HA !! Rashid, really funny.
And where do they grow ths wheat? On top of Kaaba?
SA is net exporter of terrorists too.
Pranav
145
10:14 pm
@MR
Sure, which is why I am all for the nuke deal and alternative energy - both for The US and India.
@MM
Actually MR is right, refer to your Sanskrit text-book. In a shiva temple, you go into a garbha-gruha (womb) to worship the lingham which is seen as emerging from the yoni.
Of course, there is nothing wrong with phallic worship. Shaivism is an ancient faith, and they worship a symbol of creation - much like what ancient Egyptians and celtics did..
Alex
146
10:04 pm
Snehal,
Even MF Hussain is bad. Even he should be fined or given punishment. As per Quran, one cannot draw the nude images of any woman. So, hence, he is punishable. Lets not kill our own soles based on freedom of expression. If somebody draws my/your nude image, won’t you hurt or would you say its freedom of expression ?
Many people here are arguing without proper knowledge at hand.
Saurav Basu
147
10:45 pm
@muhammad rashid
Such freedom of expression cannot be envisaged by those who make a living out of the sword
Muhamamed Rashid
148
12:42 pm
@Saurav Basu
You mean to say that Sivasena whose symbol is tiger head and sword should not envisage freedom of expression.
I did not mean any where that freedom of expression used by MFH is right. It is not the who buy of go to appreciate his paintings.
Islam does not encourage nude paintings and violence. People who believe that muslims preach violence are the ones who turn their eyes otherway to the fact that muslim violence is a reaction to injustice and violence from the other party.
What do you say about Raj Thakrey’s violence against north Indians. Is it his justified freedom of expression to instigate marathis against the north Indians?
Put your pet cat in a closed room and run after it with a stick and see what it does.
Snehal Joshi
149
3:11 pm
Another two cities under terrorist attack. Around 60-70 people dead, hundreds injured. 3 Cars found in a third city full of explosives.
Terrorist have claimed that have wage a war with Indian State. They have challenged the government DO WHATEVER YOU CAN, WE WILL KILL PEOPLE AT OUR WILL. And what is our honourable Home Minister doing, he is saying as the victims are our brothers, so are the terrorists. There is also a plan to rehabilitate the kins of the terrorists.
Doesn’t this sound like anarchy already. It means that the government is asking the Hindus to be meer scapegoats for terrorism. They are not going/incapable to do anything. So we have to live with it.
1conoclast
150
6:14 pm
Snehal,
I know you feel strongly about terrorist attacks. You’re not alone. All of us are aggrieved. All of us are worried at a certain level.
However, you need to understand that only Hindus aren’t being killed & injured by these bombs. Open today’s Indian express & read about a child called Israr.
Terror knows no religion. They’re anti-goodness & therefore anti-God. Don’t confuse the issue please.
We can do something about it. I suspect Ahmedabad was sadly targetted so badly because of what modi did there a few years back. If you want to get rid of terrorism, get rid of people like modi, thakre etc. Anyone who hates or divides human beings on religions, caste, colour, statehood, ethnicity basis. And terrorism will die a natural death. You have a voice. Please use it against the people who give rise to terrorism. Shouting against Osama etc. is like treating a viral fever with Crocin. You have to take antibiotics that target the virus to get cured!!! I hope you get the analogy.
Snehal Joshi
151
7:13 pm
1con…
Don’t talk rubbish yaar. Kab tak har aantaki vardaat ko BJP, SHIV SENA aur Bajrang Dal par dhakelte rahoge
By pushing the blame of terrorist activities on Modi and Thackrey, rn’t we shifting the focus from real problems. What happened in Gujarat was almost six years back, for how long the terrorist will take the revenge of it. Haven’t they already killed many people already under this pretext. The blasts in Ahmedabad are still justifiable, but what about the bomb blasts in Bangalore, Jaipur, etc.
They are openly claiming to wage a war against Indian State.
My question is why isn’t the government doing anything about it. Each time hour honourable Home Minister says, the culprits will be caught and punished severely. We won’t allow terrorists to break our secular culture and things like that. Leave aside punishing them, we haven’t caught any of the culprits from the Mumbai Blasts. All of them have fled to Pakistan or Bangladesh. Moreover, whoever is caught and punished, our government asks the president to cancel their punishment to appease the Muslims. What they don’t understand is they are pushing the country towards anarchy. Their actions are giving more reasons to BJP, SHIV SENA AND BAJRANG DAL to instigate Hindus. If this goes on like this for some more time, I fear the history of Gujrat and Mumbai will repeat itself. There will be communal polarisation.
Agreed that the Hindus are not the only victims but you will also agree that they are the form the most percentage of the victims. Are the Hindus suppose to save themselves and if yes, then whatever Bal Thackrey is saying makes sense.
The Modern Mullah
152
7:21 pm
@snehal,
What else do you expect in a country like India? Hindus will continue to remain cowards and be happy with statements like ‘terror knows no religion’ etc. despite 99% of terror attacks being committed by fanatics of one religion.
Then we will have justifications, that bombings took place because of George bush, Narendra Modi, Cartoons, someone burnt Quran etc. If all these irritants are removed SIMI will say that everyone should convert to Islam and bomb us. If everyone converts, then Taliban will say that you should follow the religion strictly and behead us. If everyone becomes the Taliban, we can all live happily in the stone age!
By now it should be clear to all but the mentally retarded that we need to speak out against radicals from madrassas.
Snehal Joshi
153
7:32 pm
MM,
Well said sir.
If Hindus raise their voice against this terrorism they are termed as Communal Fascist etc. There have been numerous attacks everywhere in the country. Pople like 1 con… never say a line against Muslims but are the first ones to blame it on Narendra Modi, Bal Thackrey and RSS.
These people advise Hindus that an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind, at these same people forget the above philosophy while giving the reasons that the blasts are the consequenses of the what happened in Gujarat 6 years back.
Bravo my sickularist people, way to go.
Snehal Joshi
154
7:43 pm
Chacko wrote this article when Bal Thackrey just said that the Hindus should prepare Human bombs, and I don’t see a single line written after these ghastly acts.
1conoclast
155
9:40 pm
Snehal…
You are wrong here. Please check this link out:
http://1conoclast.blogspot.com/2008/07/india-being-held-ransom.html
I’d also submitted this post to the Mutiny. It still has to be approved by the editors. Unfortunately they all hold full time jobs & like doing something constructive unlike your new friend here.
An eye for an eye applies everywhere. Nobody’s forgotten that and nobody’s condoning terrorism. And just like you’re asking me not to ignore terrorist attacks in our country (which by the way I haven’t), I’m asking you not to negate the role of the thakres & the modis in giving rise to insecurity, fear & then terrorism!
I fear exactly what you fear: communal polarization, civil war etc. etc. It’s very clear to me that for us to stop ourselves from going down that path, we MUST call a spade a spade. Everyone condemns terrorist attacks & does their utmost to track the killers down. However, it will ALSO take the likes of you condemning the likes of the bjp, rss, bajrang dal etc. etc. Once you keep your end of the bargain, India can move towards becoming a truly equal, a truly secular country. If you’re going to only condemn one side & ignore the transgressions of the other, then it’s not going to help much.
Hopefully, you see the point I’m trying to make.
Snehal Joshi
156
12:00 pm
I still beg to differe you. For some unknown reason, like the our secular media, you seem to brainwashed against the Hindu Organisations like SS, RSS, and the BJP.
After the Gujarat Riots, there has been no major problem/riot from Hindu Side. There have been no inflamatory speeches given by Narendra Modi or any of the BJP leaders. Even Bal Thackrey has refrained from given his trade mark fiery speeches after stepped down from the SS chief post. And whats the result. There have been increasing number of blasts all across the country. Jaipur, Ayodhya, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Malegaon, Hyderabad so on and so forth.
As MM has said in his speech, the terrorists have one point agenda, to spread terror on the name of Jehad. They don’t have any demands, they don’t have any rational thinking. They just want to kill people. As I have said, the gujarat blasts can still be linked to the gujarat riots, but what about the blasts in Mumbai locals, Bangalore, Jaipur. There were no riots in those cities. There were no atrocities done on muslims in those cities.
So stop preaching us non violence. Hindus have been the most tolerant community.
It is illogical to link Hindu atrocities to these kind of blasts. If that was true what is the reason for the terrorist organisation called Indian Mujahideen to wage a war against whole of the country.
Muhamamed Rashid
157
12:48 pm
Here as well as all the blogs our learned friends from the majority community go to the conclusion that muslims have perpetrated all these serial blasts which have occured in mosques, temples, train, parks, public places, hospitals etc where people of both communities have been affected. If they are along with our inefficient security forces and a fairly large section of the media accuse that muslims have done these then why there is no arrest of real culprits?
It did not even took two days to conclusively identify the culprits of 1993 Mumbai blasts. Why in the last 12 blasts not a single criminal has been caught beyond doubt, which happed post Mumbai blasts. Why the same Mumbai police could not catch the real culprits after the train blasts.
You can find a similar trend of accusations. SIMI, Let, HuJi. The blasts are of similar fashion without conclusive proof. Yesterday Gujarat home minister has said to an interviewer, unlike previous 11 incidents, the culprits of Ahmedabad blasts would be caught and case solved. How?
In every crime criminal leaves some material evidence. Why not in these serial blasts? The criminals are smarter than the investigating agencies. The criminals know the present mentality majority population, police and media. They know that the doubt will not be on them and no body will investigate in their angle. A former DG of CBI said to an anchor of a live TV program that Hindus are not capable of doing such crime. As if he has not dealt a single case in his life murder, arson, daughter in law burning, killing of muslims in riots etc involving a hindu.
There is no doubt that some muslims are into terrorist activities. Can you find a single Indian muslim in Guantanomo bay, where you can find muslims from different parts of the world?
The muslims in India now a days getting discriminated against almost every aspect of life. If some body speaks in favor of them he is branded as psuedo secularist. When congress speaks some things in favour of muslims they are appeasing muslims for vote.
Advani has the right to praise Jinnah. He has the right to not know when the terrorist are set free. He does not know when the defence minister of the country is travelling with known captured terrorist to set him and his friends free. Advani has right to not know and no responsibility when terrorists are attacking parliament, Akshardham etc. He has right not to resign when terrorist attack happens when he is power. He and he only has the right to demand the resignation of Congress PM. When congrees fails some where the PM is nikamma, when he failed and unfortunately the parliament was attacked when he was Home minister he was not nikamma.
During the confidence motion period he promised some sops to muslims. Was it not appeasing? Hippocrisy is at its height in the BJP.
I am not congress party worker or sypathiser. I am simply a media watcher. There is a definite move to destibilise India and to create a divide between Hindu and muslim community not only by some misguided muslims but some highly connected hindus with vested interest who have successfully deflected the atttention of investigating agencies towards muslim terrorists. This is my guess. Why this angle should not be investigated.
After Ahmedabad blasts an email was sent to the police. It was traced to a house in Navi Mumbai owned by one Abhishek Sharma and rented to an American. Some cars were found with addresses of Navi Mumbai. When a hindu sounding name cropped up police is explaining that the IP address was hijacked. But why the police is not believing that the name claimed by terrorists “Indian Mujahideen” is also a hijacked or planted name?
There are more percentage of muslims loyal to India than percentage of Hindus. Among the govt employees you will certainly find muslims to be more honest than hindu colleagues in percentage. Why many more hindus get caught selling secrets to Pakistan than Indian muslims?
India has to recruit more muslim intelligence officers to counter terrorism without any bias.
I denounce muslim terrorism everywhere on earth as forcefully as hindu terrorism/human bomb advocated by grand old man Bal Thackrey.
Snehal Joshi
158
1:10 pm
Rashid Sahab,
Indian has a population of 100 billions. If everyone thinks of a different angle and the investigating agencies start probing all those angles then just imagine what the situation would be.
There have been enough arrests after each of the attacks and sorry to say majority of them if not all, were muslims and linked to SIMI at one point of time or another. You being media watcher, must have heard the name of Shahid Bilal, Azam Cheema etc who are behind these blasts and were office bearers of the Simi.
Your claim that Intelligence Agencies, popular media etc show what is believed by the normal public is just laughable. Is the Indian public so foolish that it can be fooled for so many years.
Pranav Chavda
159
1:12 pm
I was in Ahmedabad during the balsts, was scheduled to leave to Bombay the same day at 9, couldn’t because of the chaos and traffic on the road.
Guess what was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard about the blasts?
I thought “Goddammit, I hope these amdavadis don’t think about revenge and rioting tomorrow, I want to go to mumbai and be safe, The blasts may have killed 50, but if there is rioting tomorrow, thousands will die, and I may be one of them”
The chances of one individual dying (me in this case) are more in rioting than in a blast.
So, Obviously, I don’t want a Muslim bomb like everyone else here, but I sure as hell also don’t want Hindus to retaliate to a Muslim bomb - or 20 of them.
Pranav Chavda
160
1:17 pm
I’m even having second thoughts about this . not because of the blasts, but because Ahmedabadis tend to find a way to riot after every act of terror on them. This doesn’t normally happen here in Bombay - not after the 92 riots.
1conoclast
161
2:59 pm
Snehal,
It’s OK for us to differ. I for example believe that our media today is largely not secular anymore. If they were would they not cover the underhand activities of the Hindu extremist groups as much as the activities of the despicalbe likes of SIMI etc are chronicled? You would not be equally aware of what Hindu extremist organizations have been up to for decades? I personally believe that with the exception of the Indian Express & the Hindu (& Tehelka now) most of the media is run by top bosses who live with strong pro-upper caste Hindu bias. Which is why quite a few stories don’t come to light. Talk to any respected journalist you you will realize that they second what I am saying.
Hopefully that answers your question about dirty scumbags like the sena who hate south Indians & north Indians & Muslims, and exist (apparently) only for the Marathi manoos; or the bjp or the rss, both of them pro-militant organizations who’re against the ahimsa teachings of Gandhiji, Buddha & Mahavir Jain, who live to keep Indian society strongly divided.
Allow me to correct your current affairs a little bit. After Godhra, modi gave 2 inflammatory speeches just before the gujarat elections in which he made veiled references to Muslims & direct attacks on Sonia Gandhi. He continues to make both Musims & Secular Hindus insecure.
Thakre has never stopped being inflammatory. This post is only the latest example!
I agree that terrorists seemingly have no agenda. Based on that, they should also have no support, right? How do they function without support inside India? PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION!
I agree when you say that “Hindus have been the most tolerant community”. Most of them continue to be. Some others however have turned militant either in speech (like you?) or in action (like the ones bal-t is encouraging here). They are the ones ruining the good name of the Hindus & the faith of the minorities like the Muslims, the Christians, the Dalits etc. etc.
It is in the interest of the country that Hindus don’t allow the minorities to lose faith in their goodness.
ALSO, I hope you’re read Pranav’s comments here.
Snehal Joshi
162
4:26 pm
1con……(whats the meaning of this. Do let me know)
Reply to your first para-On the contrary I feel that the entire media, specially the electronic is highly biased against the Hindu Right wings. All of them show length and breadth of coverage against BJP, RSS, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena etc. Just watch any discussions on any of their shows specially IBN, and you will come to know where I am coming from.
” After Godhra, modi gave 2 inflammatory speeches just before the gujarat elections in which he made veiled references to Muslims & direct attacks on Sonia Gandhi. ”
The attack on Sonia Gandhi was in retaliation to her remarks to him terming him as MERCHANT OF DEATH. The whole media agreed that Modi was highlighting only the development of Gujrat in his earlier speeches. The attack on Muslims which you allege was actually the attack on the Terrorist and not on the muslims I distinctly remember those speeches.
“Based on that, they should also have no support, right? How do they function without support inside India? PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION!”
This is the same question is which worries me and every other person I know, that what is the reaons for Muslims(not all, whoever are supporting them) to support these terrorists. What do they want. If they feel deprieved in any kind, why are they against the entire Hindu Society. Why do they want to kill innocents. Why doesn’t the thought of relatives of the victims, the children of victims doesn’t come to their minds even once. Why don’t the gruesome images after every attack make them feel sad and think over. Why none of the supporters comes ahead and informs about the terrorist. What is that the Hindus have done so wrong that these people are killing them at their will. And then the reply of MM stands true. It has nothing to do with the atrocities on muslims, it has nothing to do with the deprivation etc. The terrorist find the muslim youth who hold grudge against Hindus for any reasons. They identify such youth, and brainwash them to such an extent that they don’t remain human. A normal human being would be certainly moved by watching the scenes after each blasts but not these people, because their humanity is also washed along with their brains.
“They are the ones ruining the good name of the Hindus & the faith of the minorities like the Muslims, the Christians, the Dalits etc. etc.”
And what do you expect us to do. Sit silent and watch the people die like animals. If we write against terrorism and terrorist we are spreading bad name for Hindu Religion. Hindus like us have been opposing only the attrocities done on Hindus. We have nothing against any other community. Christians and Sikhs have been living in India with harmony for so many years. Why is that only such muslims find Hindus as offensive.
“It is in the interest of the country that Hindus don’t allow the minorities to lose faith in their goodness”
Meaning christians can convert n number of Hindus? Muslims can do whatever they like, riot on smallest of instigations, hold dharnas in India to condemn the Prophet’s cartoon, Bombard cities to avenge some historic riots etc, but the Hindus, to maintain their goodness should sit quiet and just see whatever is happening.
I didn’t get the context of Pranav’s comment
Muhammed Rashid
163
5:10 pm
Dear Snehal,
You can understand the muslim psyche only if you put your feet into muslim shoe. Dont you think they are not being discriminated againt in jobs, education etc. There is reservation for people except muslims. ST, SC, OBC, back ward class. Where do the muslims fit. You go to any muslim area of any city in India. Invariably it is unclean according to that city’s standard. There are few schools for muslims.
Muslims are discriminated against in govt jobs in promotion matters. They are not adequately represented in Army, Police, Intelligence agencies, Civil Services.
You go to Gujrat. You will find the treatment of muslim community by the civic authorities. In most areas hindus are discouraged to do business with muslims. The will power and grit only carries them forward. Still majority of the muslims are peace loving.
The congress party though giving lip service to muslims has not done much for the community
These positive discrimination has made some muslims paranoid.
Yesterday Sushma Swaraj addressing a press conference told that the blasts in Bangalore and Ahmedabad were done by congress alliance todeflect attention from cash for confidence vote in Parliament. What do you say about that considering her senior position in the party?
Positive discrimination will create feelings and positive justice will rein in disgruntled elements which will usher in warmth and tranquility among the societies.
1conoclast
164
6:13 pm
Snehal,
You could be right about the e-media, but consider this: The print media is largely but covertly pro-right-wing. The e-media is anti-right-wing. That kinda squares the equation & it should; but more importantly, don’t you think the what the right-wing does is deserving of being exposed & condemned??? They’re not saints, they plot, plan, raze & rebuild, kill, riot, burn, and their leaders encourage all of this. SHOULD THEY NOT BE CONDEMNED FOR BEING THIS WAY? Should only the Muslim extremists be held accountable in the media? Are only madarsas dangerous? Are rss run indoctrination centres not dangerous? You can see so many people on the Mutiny who are rabidly anti-Muslim, anti-Gandhi. Where do you think that indoctrination came from???
modi was rightly called a merchant of death. He is. And the terrorist case wasn’t closed. It was disputed whether or not the man was a terrorist or an innocent victim. There’s no smoke without fire. If the media thought there was no truth to the other angle, they wouldn’t have covered it.
The same question can be asked of you. Why do “some” Hindus hate all Muslims? Why do they kill innocents? Does babu bajrangi come to mind here? What about the two innocent Staines sons? It is because there are leaders on both sides that teach hate, that indoctrinate.
And what do you think? Inside support only comes from Muslims? Aren’t Hindus convicted of helping smuggle in the explosives & detonators etc?
My point REMAINS: Stop persecuting people, stop hating them, otherwise we will never be able to live in safety, or sleep peacefully at night.
No one expects you to sit silently. I only expect you to attack the cause. Stand up & criticize the bajrang dal for killing a Christian Missionary & his two innocent sons. Punish upper castes for raping & killing lower caste people!
Slap the next person who says a bad word against your Muslim brothers. When there are more people like you, your minorities will respect you & stand by you. Otherwise, it’s going to carry on in this unfortunate manner.
Sikhs too hold a grudge against Hindus. Have you forgotten that madman Amrit from that MTV Khalistan post discussion??? You’re deluding yourself if you believe that only Muslims are fighting the Hindus. The Hindus are being fought on every front. The only people who don’t fight back are the Christians. They’re peaceful folk. The don’t even fight when you burn a church or a priest down. Yet you think that hindutva is a good thing!!!!!!!!!! I’m surprised…!
What do YOU EXPECT? That the poor souls who were rioted against should sit quietly & forgive what happened to them??? I expect that too, but it isn’t going to happen unfortunately. Forgiveness doesn’t come easy. Fear & Anger come easy! The only thing that will work is if bal-t & his goons went & kissed the feet of every grave & apologized in public. That may have stopped people from being angry & fearful. Hanging bal-t & his goons may have averted the blasts! Everyone has their expectations Snehal. If theirs aren’t fulfilled, ours will not be either. Unfortunately, that’s the way the world is!
I request you not to look at it only from a Hindus point of view. Look at it as an Indian’s point of view, a Human point of view. Put yourself in their shoes & then think.
Snehal Joshi
165
11:53 am
Rashid Sahab,
I fully agree with the points raised by you, but somewhere I feel that the problems you have raised have to do with aggressive attitude of the Muslims. As I understand, the Bohri Muslims, who by nature are peace loving and have business acumen have been doing pretty well everywhere in the country. However the problems are being faced by the Shia and Sunny who are pretty aggressive in nature. In my home town I have seen them rioting on minor provocations, which has incorporated a sense of distrust amongst Hindus towards them. Again not all of the muslims of the sect are culprits, the actions of few has given the reason to the Hindus to believe that the whole community is like that.
Also my other point is every community has some grudges against the goverment and in every community you will see people who are poor, and who feel deprieved. Does that mean all of them should go on doing bomb blasts across the country.
Regarding statements of Sushma Swaraj, do you really believe that it can be true. Can the congress really do that, considering that there elections next year. Congress would think a thousand times before doing such a conspiracy as it fully knows the consequences if such a conspiracy is unearthed.
Snehal Joshi
166
12:12 pm
1Con……..
I think you and me are going round and round.
You are giving reasons why the terrorists are doing bomb blasts on provocation of BJP, RSS and other right wings. Whereas I feel that due to these bomb blasts the right wings is exploiting the feeling of mistrust generated in the minds of common hindus. Both the ways are leading to what we both are fearing, communal polarization.
We are also going round and round on the solution for this. Whereas you feel that more and more Hindus should start condemning the acts and speeches of Right Wing, I feel more and more muslims should start coming forward and giving information on terrorist activities that they know.
Many of the Hindus are already doing what you have said, but I find really less or neglible Muslims doing what I have said. If muslims come forward and give information about the terrorists, it will have a two way effect. Not only will it save the future disasters, it will also help generating a feeling of confidence amongst the Hindus for the muslim community. This way the right wing will not be able gain any kind of advantage from the terrorist activities.
You have asked more and more Hindus to condemn the speeches and acts of Right Wings. Tell me something, aren’t there already enough Hindus who have been doing this for decades. The likes of Mahesh Bhatt, Kumar Ketkar, Aleque Padamsee, Rahul Bose etc. As you can find the likes of Saurav Basu, Ravi Sathe on this board, you can also find many boarders who are openly condemning the right wings every now and then. But has it generated any results. None, if you ask me. There has been a constant increase in the terrorist activities. Who is to be blamed for this.
1conoclast
167
3:48 pm
Snehal…
Allow me to point out one crucial error in your thinking, ek soch mein khot:
Why are you assuming that Muslims will have information on terrorist activities??? bal-t has hundreds of shakhas all over Bombay; doesn’t he have access to this local information. He is said to have ties with the underworld, surely he would’ve known something about what’s happening in Bombay. Why didn’t he come forward with the information???
Why are assuming that all bombs are planted by Muslims? Didn’t you read reports of Hindus having planted bombs at a sangh parivar office in Kerala to create communal tension?
Didn’t we lose Rajiv Gandhi to an LTTE suicide bomber? They were all Hindus weren’t they? Do you see the Muslims or the press blaming Hindus for acts of terrorism? No! Why? Because they don’t hate all Hindus.
Your comment in light of what I just said is very very stupid, uninformed & disgraceful.
They WERE doing it for decades. Nowadays you hear more of MM’s, saurav’s & ravi’s and unfortunately sometimes a Snehal joins them. Mahesh Bhatt is half Muslim by birth, from his Mother’s side, Alyque is not Hindu either.
Please also read these:
http://1conoclast.blogspot.com/2008/07/half-hindus-view-on-how-hindus-should.html
&
http://mutiny.in/2008/07/17/a-half-hindus-view-on-how-hindus-should-be-percieved/
I already told you that when you have to blame someone, you will have to examine the entire spectrum. It isn’t only one party that’s responsible. It’s a whole lot of selfish vested interests and misguided people from different religions that are responsible.
vimal
168
4:07 am
i agree with balasaheb. As a human u have to retaliate if someone attacks u. Muslims are the first one to attacks hindus. They are the one bombing hindus. They are the one killing hindus.I have to agree that few hindu guys are so patient and they will not slap u back if u slap them. I donno , maybe slavery is in their genes, being rulled by british, these slave gene has working properly now. We need aggressive, outspoken, dominating characters. i donno when these hindus will get these characters. these slaves will remain as slaves unless they retaliate. i am not the kind of guy who will remain calm.
1conoclast
169
2:29 pm
in that case, shame on you too vimal!!!
Mensa
170
8:47 am
I checked out info on the Acai berry here: http://www.galileolabs.com
Swati. c
171
9:46 am
Yeah right, shame on those who retaliate. No blog about Delhi yet? Balasaheb says something and there is a war of words here. Muslims do something AGAIN and no reactions.
How fair!
Swati. c
172
9:48 am
The LTTE bomber wasn’t screaming JAI SRI RAM..and the full form of LTTE or its aims have nothing to do with HINDUISM.
See the difference? Ofcourse not!!!!!!!!
Swati. c
173
9:53 am
Sikhs too hold a grudge against Hindus. Have you forgotten that madman Amrit from that MTV Khalistan post discussion??? You’re deluding yourself if you believe that only Muslims are fighting the Hindus. The Hindus are being fought on every front. The only people who don’t fight back are the Christians. They’re peaceful folk. The don’t even fight when you burn a church or a priest down. Yet you think that hindutva is a good thing!!!!!!!!!! I’m surprised…!
//////
What kind of inflammatory shit is this? How are you different from Bal Thackray? Please stop spreading lies.
Hindus are being fought in INDIA by ingrates who want SPECIAL benifits while offering nothing in return. Hindus everywhere else are respected as peace loving people who mingle with and contribute positively to the society they live in.
Muslims are being seen as TERRORISTS by every imaginable community of every imaginable religion in every goddamn country and having to explain every breath they take.
Take those blinkers off ICON.
Chacko, any comments on DELHI? Or are you going to ADMIT OPENLY that this is an ANTI HINDU site?
Swati. c
174
10:12 am
Or are you afraid to question Muslim radicals because u’re scared they’ll target you as a group?
Or do you actually support them?
Do you have any solutions or do you have only provocation to offer?
The more there are of you, the more support Bal Thackray and his likes will garner. Keep going.
yes, where is the post?
175
11:50 am
Yeah, even i have been waiting to read something abt delhi blasts here in the Mutiny. i am sure it is another example of how muslims have to resort to such extremist terrorising activities because of the worldwide discrimination they are facing. poor them, we have to help them out of the difficult situation they are in.
sanjukta
176
3:51 pm
Ok the post is up now.
Gosh, you guys are impatient. Puts so much pressure on Mutiny shoulders.
Snehal Joshi
177
2:18 pm
Hi Swati C,
I completely agree with you. This site is totally Anti Hindu just like our news channels.
E.H
178
6:21 pm
Now why do some idiots think only hindus die when a bomb blasts. it hurts everyone !!!
everyone!!!
I’ve had it with these dumb morons who talk of revenge all the time…who are you going to fight?
There are islamic terrorist s bombing india?
why?
coz they cant do genocide or massacre on the scale done by hindu terrorists like VHP,RSS and the Bajrang Dal. So they all those aholes resort to bombing…
and
these insecure idiots’ best plan to contain them is to bomb them back…
IDIOTS of the first order….remove yourselves from the human race before you destroy it
I wish for all the dumbass politicians die in some epic plane crash or something….why dont these terrorists bomb the freakin parliament that attack innocent people.
i wish somebody in the government or even the people of india grow up and ban every fundamentalist organisation…..
peace !!! how i long for it?
1conoclast
179
7:39 pm
Why Swati…!!!
Aren’t you the quintessential communal blot on humanity…?
“Muslims” didn’t do anything, the TERRORISTS did!”
Par TUMHEIN kaun samjhaye…?
Your yelling “RIGHTS FOR HINDUS” is the same thing as their yelling “RIGHTS FOR MUSLIMS”!
Par TUMHEIN kaun samjhaye…?
bal-t is close to his grave. He will be relegated to one small unflattering paragraph in history books, if he’s lucky! Soon no one will remember him in except in MH. With enough education, they’ll remember him with contempt!
Posts are up on the Mutiny & elsewhere. Read up.
E.H,
I understand how you feel…
Venkat
180
3:29 pm
Close the comments when you don’t have any answers….Again an expected reaction….
Nanavati report is out. MODI did not have any hand in the riots and it was local Muslims who pre-planned and burnt the bogies of Sabarmati express.
So now you will say Nanavati is not to be trusted…LOL!!
Or again you will say not all Muslims are like that….Well, leave out Muslims of Gujrath, Delhi, Kashmir, TN, Karnataka etc etc….so who are these Muslims and where are they who are not like that? They sure seem to be invisible….
Venkat
181
3:45 pm
By the way, 1conoclast seem to be following the fundamentals of Islam very perfectly…As everyone knows…the fundamentals of Islam are…
Darul Islam, Darul Ahad & Darul Harab… given the numbers of Muslim population in different states. If Muslims are an absolute majority they are required to enforce Darul Islam where non-Muslims are kafirs, therefore, without equal rights. The so-called kafirs cannot practice their religions, pray, preach or display their gods as in Saudi Arabia . Where Muslims are in a hopeless minority they must live in Darul Ahad and must make a deal with the majority and make no demands; and finally when the Muslims are not in a hopeless minority they must conduct subversions and act against all human values to leverage their position in the polity and ultimately rulers and that is called Darul Harab.
With his subversive articles and slow poison, he is definitely following Darul Harab….These words are from their Quran itself….
Venkat
182
3:49 pm
AND MAKE NO MISTAKES….JUST ASK YOURSELF HONESTLY EVERYONE…
If Islam and Muslims were in a majority in India, do you think Hindus would have had equal rights and a peaceful life? Do you even think Hindus would be allowed to speak out?
If Islam was a majority in India, do you still think freedom of religion will be there?
ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS HONESTLY 1conoclast…..
Read ..highly recommended
183
3:49 pm
Icon,
Those terrorists did what they did in the name of Islam. Kaun unko samjhae?
haha Blog….coming from someone who supports MUSLIMS who’re taught that HUMANITY is divided into BELIEVERS - LOVED BY GOD and NON BELIEVERS - HATED BY GOD…and PUNISHED in the hereafter using the most INHUMAN methods…that sounds COMIC!!!
And if that is NOT what is taught, what are conversions about?
Read ..highly recommended
184
3:49 pm
blot*
1conoclast
185
5:55 pm
Venkat @ 081:
This is what I have already said. Not what you think.
http://mutiny.in/2008/10/07/shame-on-you-ratan-tata/#comment-63990
@ 083:
You only need to look back at Akbar’s rule.
I am past arguing with idiots anyway.
read… @ 084:
Why don’t you read & understand the Quran if you’re so interested. At least that way you will have the knowledge. Even if that doesn’t cure you, at least people like me will not be able to argue with you.
You wanna know about conversions? OK.
Conversions back into Hinduism are what partly caused Jainism’s decline in India. You may refer to the fiasco in Gujarat where the Govt. had to withdraw a bill on religious conversion following protests from Jains. They were protesting the fact that they were being demoted to a sect within Hinduism instead of a separate religion.
Like I said before, read up. It will enlighten you. If it doesn’t change you, at least it will make you difficult to argue with. Either way, you’re a winner. Right?
Muhamamed Rashid
186
1:44 pm
Now all those people who were preaching that muslims were doing the blasts have got their answer in hte Sadhvi and Purohit. Bal Thackrey must be a happy man. But he should feel shame at the same time. See how coward these so called Hindu fanatics who did the blasts and blamed it on Muslims. I am not talking about the vast majority of Hindus who are sincerely secular and non violent. Now it is clear that Muslims did not do all those blasts in recent times. Almighty God is there to judge.
DAVID
187
12:22 am
I agree with balasaheb’s comment .If you think rationally it is a pure frustration outcame from bombblasts occured in last 20 years targetting at hindu community.What is wrong if any hindu is thinking to give tit for tat?
There were only saheb’s sainiks to save hindus from anti national muslims. so without thinking about these seudo secularist BALASAHEB GO AHEAD WE ARE WITH YOU.
forufrom1987
188
2:53 am
This is a never ending issue. Probably, it will exist as long as humanity exists.
If the Muslims so claim that they have lived here from centuries, whats the problem telling them about their ancestry of Hinduism? Hindus will sympathize them for being ex-Hindus, and the ex-hindus will find Hindus as their brothers.
This is what M. J. Akbar said when Thomas Friedman interviewed him for his book, ‘The World is Flat’.
“I’ll give you a quiz question: Which is the only large Muslim community to enjoy sustained democracy for the last fifty years? The Muslims of India. I am not going to exaggerate Muslim good fortune in India. There are tensions, economic discrimination, and provocations, like the destruction of the mosque at Ayodhya [by Hindu nationalists in 1992]. But the fact is, the Indian Constitution is secular and provides a real opportunity for economic advancement of any community that can offer talent. That’s why a growing Muslim middle class here is moving up and generally doesn’t manifest the strands of deep anger you find in many nondemocratic Muslim states.”
sehwag ka sixer
189
5:33 pm
forufrom1987,
Fair set of points largely.
The question that needs to be answered is this:
What do we do about those people who mock secularism & who have no respect for our constitution?